Book 5 - A complete walk through discussion

Harry Potter Forum

We haven't done a "walk through" on any of the books... but, I would like to do just that with book 5, HP and the Order of the Phoenix. But, before doing this, I want to know that we will have people that are dedicated to doing this with me.

What does it require? Thank you for asking....

You will need a copy of the 5th book, and the time to read one chapter, and then discuss, at length, that chapter.

What do we hope to gain from this?

Well, I'm hoping that we can look for hidden meanings, clues, foreshadowing, etc...

So, if this is something that you want to do, please post a response, and once I have at least 2 or 3 people dedicated to doing this, we will begin.

I want to do it but I'm reading book 5 at "Hagrid's Tale" so I must re read the book again?

Hmm.........Hidden meanings and clues that'll lead to the next book.With that then I'm really intrested.

When do we start?

I'll try to persuade Agent Mike or anyone that i know quite well in the forum.

No problem, sirius... I know everyone here quite well, but you're more than welcome to see if they want to join in. When will we start? As I said... when I feel that we've got some people committed to doing this. No, you don't HAVE to reread the book. It's truly your choice. But, since we're going to be discussing this book, chapter by chapter... when we start chapter one, you might want to reread it to refresh your memory.

I am in!

Great to hear... just want to see about Grant and Mike.

I've sent off pm's to Grant and Mike, and waiting to hear what they think.
Once I hear back from them, what I want to do is have everyone read over chapter one, and then we will start a discussion on it.
So, be prepared to start in the next couple of days you two....

Does it count if I have already read the book 5 times?

Oh Sherry... you know what I'm talking about!!!!

Yes I do. O.K. I will finish my 6th read then catch up with you guys. I do hope everyone wants to do it. What about Maja?

She hasn't been popping in here. You want to shoot off a pm to her?

Sure. She is a great poster. Always has great insight.

I so totally couldn't remember a thing that happened I don't think I'd be much help on this! But I'll try

Well, we enjoy having you here.

I would read over Chapter 1 again, but I've got so much to read right now... I'm just getting through Jeffrey Deaver's new book... but I just keep slacking off and watching TV disappointed in myself

Grant... hurry up and finsih that book so we can have a 'study' on this one!

Yeah, hurry up Gaboman.

Anyway,send me by pm after Mike replies.

This is for KJ.

I'm back! I've just started to read the 'Order' in Croatian, I'm on chapter 2, is that OK? Can't wait for the *Mark Evans* and other theories to restart..!! Just like in the good old days when the book was barely published *sigh* Great thread, Kris!
PS.Sorry if I won't be around 24/7, I'm really a bit busy at the time. So when do we start??

Yeah. Maja is in! When do we start?

Okay guys... tonight we can start. When I get home from work I will post a little bit on here about chapter one, and we can discuss it. And like I said, I really want to go chapter by chapter. So, let's keep the discussion within the chapter that we're reading.

Tonight's discussion... disecting chapter one. Refresh your memories and be ready!!

Sorry for the delay children. I'm ready to dissect this thing like a frog, or if you're a vegetarian, a beetroot.

Great Mike... I'm glad to know that you will be partaking in this discussion/disection with us!!

Okay guys... get reading chapter one!! We're going to dive in a little later.
I want you to think about anything that could be a clue in chapter one.
Anything that seems like JKR could be putting foreshadowing on...
So, grab those thinking caps and read my family... READ!!!

Right, finished. Just to clarify, in how many hours from now are we going to begin? It's just it's going on 9.30 over here and I get rowdy without my eight hours of sleep. Actually I'm still pissy after 10 hours, but I'm trying to be reasonable .

Okay then... for you, tomorrow. Because, I'm still at work. It isn't even 2pm here. So, come in tomorrow to add your thoughts!

Lovely jubbly. Actually, there is one point of significance that I noticed a moment ago. Harry mentions a 10-year-old called Mark Evans that Dudley has beaten up. As Evans is Lily's maiden name, could he be a relative?

That's a main point that we're going to focus on. There's been a lot of speculation that since Lily was an Evans before marrying James Potter, that this could be a clue, or some foreshadowing, to future information. We might find that Harry hasn't lost all his family. Who knows. But, since her sister is still alive, and if there was more family... why hasn't Harry been informed of this? Or, has the family 'cut off' Petunia, because of how she reacted toward her sister? There are lots and lots of possibilities.

************CHAPTER1***********

Alright guys... it's time to delve into chapter one of the 5th book.

So, we start off in chapter one with Harry laying outside, within the flowers/bushes of the Dursleys house, listening to the muggle news. Now, Harry doesn't hear anything of importance. Should we question this? I mean, if there was a report about a major drout in England, wouldn't that be suspicion enough? After all, they start the book off by saying that it was the hottest day of the summer. The people can't use their hoses, and there's no breeze. Is that normal weather at this time of the year? Nothing such as this was mentioned in the previous books, while Harry is home during the summer.

Next you see that Harry is drifting in his thoughts while listening to the news, and to Uncle Vernon and Aunt Petunia talk. His thoughts are drifting beyond his mind. I think that this is a hint for what's to come later on in the book. I mean, he's going to learn, later on, about blocking his thoughts off... and also, during different times throughout the book, they show his continually 'drifting off' in thought while he should be listening to other things. I have no idea is this is anything of importance, but I did want to point it out.

Harry overhears his aunt and uncle discussing Dudley being over at the Polkisses' house for tea. Where have we heard that name before... specifically "Polkiss and Piers." It's from the first book... what can you find?

Next thing of importance that happens...

"A loud, echoing crack broke the sleepy silence like a gunshot; a cat streaked out from under a parked car and flew out of sight; a shriek, a bellowed oath, and the sound of breaking china came from the Dursleys' living room, and as though Harry had been waiting for this signal, he jumped to his feet, at the same time pulling from the waistband of his jeans a thin wooden wand as if he was unsheathing sword. But before he could draw himself up to full height, the top of his head collided with the Dursleys' open window, and the resultant crash made Aunt Petunia scream even louder.


That's a lot of things to happen all within probably less than 30 seconds time.

There's clues within just that one paragraph... I believe. The cat that was under the car, that flew out from under it and disappeared. We learn later that there was a cat watching Harry. One of Miss Figg's cats. While we don't learn anything about the cat, I wonder if there's more than meets the eye on this cat (and then it leads me to thoughts of Crookshanks).

After the confrontation that takes place between Harry and his relatives, he takes off, down the street, without thought to his safety. He's thinking about Dobby and his powers. Do you believe in the comparision that Harry is making between what happened with the noise, like apparating or disapparating? I think that this is a huge hint.

Harry reaches the park, and there he's thinking about what Dudley and 'his gang' have been doing. He thinks about that kid, 10 year old, Mark Evans. Here, a lot of people believe is a GREAT clue, that has something to do with Lily Potter, who was, before she married James Potter, Lily Evans. Could this child be a relative... distant cousin that Harry knows nothing about? Could the Dursleys' also know nothing about other relatives, or just don't want anything to do with Petunia's family in any way?

If you remember "Snapes worst memory" from chapter 28 of the 4th book... this should cause you to think that there's more than meets the eye on this boy, Mark Evans. You should have noticed something *cough* coincidental about his name.

We then skip to where Harry is taunting Dudley... he's provoking him, and the description of the taunting is a bit suspicious. Knowing the mind of Harry like we do, after reading the entire 5th book, this part should set off some sort of ideas, suspicions, etc... for you.

I suggest that you reread that portion, and let's see what we can come up with, okay?

The darkness... caused by the Dementors is, according to Harry, deathly real and very powerful magic. Harry's observations of their "sphere of influence" should cause you to wonder a few things.

The Dementors are still going after Harry (remember the near kiss in book 3?). If you read carefully, you can discover a bit more about what Dementors are (or, that is, what they are not - as those creatures seem to be missing something). Most importantly, you should look in Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (Highly recommended for 5th-Years) to compare this attack with that of another dark, very deadly creature, on which a Patronus Charm is the only defense. Several key clues seen to be embedded in there - including one that may bring into question an event from Chapter 15 {"The Forbidden Forest"} in Book 1.

Magical Feelings: The sounds that accompany magic are being reinforced. However, what interests me most is that as Harry walked along, he contemplated that he was convinced something magical was going on. This feeling could be similiar to the movie/series "The Highlander," if you want to research it some more.

Okay guys... here's what I've got on chapter one. Read those past posts that I did.
Let's discuss what's going on in chapter one, and see what we can find from here.
Let's see... are there clues and foreshadowing? What do you think about what I've presented from different parts throughout the first chapter so far????

DISCUSS!!!!

Well the cat was Mr. Tibbles. He is one of Mrs Figgs. These are not ordinary cats if they can report back. The cats, in my opinion, are a magical squad of their own.

Kris, I edited a red Chapter 1 on your first post so that people could quickly scroll to it.

I know about Highlander... he senses when there are other immortals around that he has to fight, right? Well, it would be interesting if Harry could 'feel' magic that's soon to happen, or is going on somewhere near... I guess in Hogwarts he doesn't even notice it because the magic is always there, and always mixed with other feelings.
So what could this instinct mean? Maybe it will help Harry in some battles he's about to fight. But... I think that all the wizards, and even Muggles can feel this, the magic activity, although they/we mostly don't know what it means. So, maybe Harry could get a Muggle friend/cousin *cough**Mark Evans**cough* that could help him with this bits of magic that even Muggles have. (Considering that Voldemort thinks Muggles are a waste of DNA... he could be quite surprised if this theory is true )
I was thinking about that because I think it's about time for JKR to write a new, Muggle character. There are all kinds of people in Harry Potter, and there's very little about Muggles (except Dursleys *rollseyes***..)
About Mark Evans... I don't know, in HP world nothing's a coincidence, but in this case I just can't get what it's all about. Most of these JKR's clues are a lot less obvious than this one... so maybe it really is just a coincidence. What do you all think?

Very interesting Maja. You always come up with great theories.

Here is what I think. First, Mrs. Figg had taken to asking Harry over for tea all the time. She is a squibb, so what can her house offer as protection? The cats. I am telling you, those cats are not really cats. I believe that they are wizards in hiding.

Mark Evans may turn out to be a red herring. Then again, we do need a new young character, so you never know.

When Uncle Vernon grabs Harry from outside the window, he can't hold on to him. Magic. Harry is more powerful than we ever thought.

I was wondering what makes everyone think that Mark Evans is a muggle. He may be muggle-born but for all we know, there could be a Hogwarts invitation with his name on it.

Very true Mike. He could be going to Hogwarts. It just seems very obvious for J.K. Rowling.

Just to clarify, I didn't mean that he was already going to Hogwarts, as he's only 10. However, having him remain a muggle would be interesting as it would be an outside-the-wizarding-world link for Harry to use in order to learn more about that side of his family. Perhaps that's how he'll be spending the next Summer.

That could work as well Mike. It would be nice to see someone else related to Harry. Perhaps Mark is related and can shed some light on the Lily mystery.

OH how I can not wait for chapter 2. I have found a shocking thing in there. Conspiracy. Stay tuned folks. This one is up there with the Dumbledore is the Giant Squid theory Kris presented a long time ago.

Yes, Mark Evans could have an invitation arriving at the beginning of the next book, and arriving at Hogwarts, but, he could also be a muggle, or just something to get us thrown off, thinking about this... wondering if he means anything.

I too, like Sherry indicated, think that Harry has some powerful magic in him, and that we have yet to see how much he can yield. And that was a great example.

Sorry i took so long to replie,i was busy for a day ,then when i'm free the computer broke down.....

Now i'm back.

Anyway,some of you were discussing about Mark Evans and I think he will be in Hogwarts in the next book just like what Mike said.

Harry might be spending his summer with Mark Evans after Mark tells Dudley that he is also going to Hogwarts and Harry overheard them.

So what if Mark is a muggle born even Lily was a muggle born so this shows that they are related and maybe Mark was borned after lily's death.


About Harry having more magical powers then we know,ya thats true he'll do magic without using his wand!
What happened to aunt Marge and her glass?
What happened to the glass in the zoo?
What happened to unle vernon when he pulled harry in the 2nd year?

We KNOW that Marc was born after Lily's death, sirius. He's only 10 years old, and Harry is going on 17. His parent's died when Harry was only 1. Therefore, he was born well after her death.

Yes, that's true that he's done magic without a wand. We're just pointing out that he's quite powerful, and that it's getting more and more obvious.

Anyway... glad that you're back, and you're computer is up and running.

oh hi there.i'm new here but i'm interested in joining you guys.
oh and don't worry i've read the book four times...
i agree with the new plot involving mark evans.he might be related to him but does that mean that lily and petunia have other siblings?i thought that there were only two of them...
anyway,can't wait to discuss chapter 2!!!

Hey there, Ickle Ronnikins. Welcome to INReview... and especially to our little nitch here in HP.

Jump on in and discuss away. And take a look through all of our threads here in the HP forum.

Ickle Ronnikins Welcome. Cool name too! We are always happy to have a new member. Jump on in and have fun.

Kris can we start chapter 2?

Sure... either you can start it, or you will have to wait for me later tonight.
I'm at work right now, building up that massive over time!

Do you have that book that I got from amazon to do the walk through suggestions/hints, etc...? You can start it and I can add later if you want. Just let me know.

******CHAPTER 2 ******

A PECK OF OWLS

Harry discovers that batty old Mrs. Figg is a squib! He also learns that Mundungus has been following him in an invisibility cloak. All hell breaks loose when the ministry discovers that Harry has used magic to battle the Dementors. Harry is expelled, then later given a hearing to determine the fate of his school days. Aunt Petunia lets it slip that she knows about Azkaban and dementors. Harry tells the family that Voldemort has returned. Aunt Petunia appears to understand what that means and how terrifying it is. The Dursleys try to kick Harry out of the house, but a mysterious howler to Aunt Petunia interrupts. A loud voice tells her " remember my last". She quickly says that Harry must stay with them.

Open to discuss chapter 2

Kris, I don't have that book yet.

O.K. people here are my takes on Chapter two.

First off, how can a cat help protect Harry? A normal cat will not help you unless there is something major in it for him. These cats, Mr. Tibbles reports to Mrs. Figg. So there is something more going on with the cats.

Mundunus Fletcher is bandy legged and ginger haired, just like Crookshanks. Very odd coincidence.

Aunt Petunia knowing about Azkaban. I don't buy for 1 minute that she learned it by eavesdropping on James and Lily. I think either Dumbledore told her, or that she is a squib and knows that way.

The Ministry's detection of the magic. What means do they use to discover it? Could they be using the cats as well?

I agree with fuscia.Mr.Tibbles is no ordinary cat.Maybe her other cats are'nt either.They help keep an eye on Harry when he was in Mrs.Figg's house.

Aunt Petunia might really be in touch with wizards most probably Dumbledore.

Oh and another thing...did Mr.Prentice see Harry and Mrs.Figg?With his wand out?I was wondering about that....

Okay, you brought up Harry's protection while on Privet Drive. According to Voldemort in Chapter 33 {"The Death Eater"} of Book 4, due to the ancient magic that Dumbledore has cast, he can't touch Harry at the house on Privet Drive. Dumbledore's description of this magic in Chapter 37 {"The Lost Prophecy"} tells us that the protection is based on a mother's love. Since love is something that is repulsive to Lord Voldemort, he will not learn that magic, and therefore has trouble combating it. Harry is safe at Privet Drive.

Yet, there are still several questions about HOW that safety works. How did Dobby get in? Does is extend beyond the bounds of the property? We had thought it did until we saw the Dementor attack just a few blocks away. Dumbledore said that Harry only need visit Privet Drive to have the protection all year long. What KIND of protection? Could it be that Harry is vulnerable to anyone except Voldemort?

Dumbledore's words in Chapter 37 {"The Lost Prophecy"}, were that the original letter that accompanied baby Harry was left on "Her" doorstep. This may have been a convient way of phrasing it, but it you look at it's juxtaposition to his explanation of the importance of Petunia's blood, then it is very likely intentional. Dumbledore's wording about Lily's blood protection is the key clue. Dumbledore is now very specific in Book 5 that the blood protection must come through Lily's line - and that Petunia is the last of that line. Because the spell was cast by Lily, apparently James' relations would not suffice. Does this mean that there could be some relations on Harry's father's side around after all? How does that fit in with Sirius' comment in Book 3 about "the last Potter"?

Could Crookshanks be an animagus?

Even before Book 5 hit the shelves, people were speculating whether Crookshanks could possibly be an Aminagus. That was based primarily on his being so intelligent, coupled with the uncanny ability to communicate with Padfoot. Is it possible that Crookshanks is part Kneazle? (Small catlike beast with big ears. The Kneazle is intelligent, independent, and occasionally aggressive, though if it takes a liking to a witch or wizard, it makes an excellent pet. The Kneazle has an uncanny ability to detect suspicious characters and can be relied upon to guide its owner safely home if they are lost. Kneazles have up to eight kittens in a litter and can interbred with cats. The owner must required licences from the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures.)

If Crookshanks were an Animagus, it would seem that Padfoot should have recognized him as one. In Book 3, Sirius called Crookshanks on of the smartest "of his kind." It is unlikely Sirius would have called him that if his "kind" were human. A less definative but highly logical reason that Crookshanks is not an animagus was made quite clear by JKR. Ron commented in Book 3 that Animagi parading as pets is highly deceptive and not at all acceptable behavior for a good guy. Unless Animagi can change gender when they transform, I cannot imagine that Crookshanks (he) would be hanging out in the girl's dorm after we saw what happened to Ron in Book 5.

The "coincidental" description of Mundungus Fletcher was most likely done by JKR with the specific purpose of teasing us. However, it now has people wondering. As this is a magical world, it is possible that there could be some tie between Crookshanks and Mundungus Fletcher. I think that it highly unlikely that Crookshanks and Mundungus are the same person. Our proof is from Charpter 5 {"Order of the Phoenix"}, where everyone, including Dung, himself, is sitting around the table and Crookshanks settles himself onto Sirius' lap.

Did anything think it strange when Petunia was talking about Azkaban? She sure did seem to know a lot about this... and I find it curious that she says that she learned about Azkaban from 'ease dropping' on a conversation between James and Lily. She wouldn't remember that, all this time since. I think that there is a lot more to her than meets the eye.


When Dudley was attacked by the Dementor... what did he see? I would like to know... what demons does the boy have?

I don't think that Dudley's memories will be significant. The tie between Petunia and Harry is. Remember that Voldemorts spell backfired by the sacrifice of Lily. I think that there has to be other protections on specifically that house at Privet drive.

Crookshanks is most likely a cat that is part kneazle. We must keep in mind that Sirius only knew that Peter Petigrew was an Animagus because he had seen him do it. Wizards can not look at an animal and decide that that is an animagus. If that were the case, then Sirius would have been caught when he was roaming around Hogsmead looking for papers.

I am wondering if Mundungus is in charge of the cats somehow.

Well, I would just like to know what Dudley saw when the Dementor was upon him.

I think that we're going to get a HUGE shock regarding Petunia and how she's protecting Harry. Just a thought... but she did see a little 'suspecious' in chapter 2 with her knowledge.

You're right about the fact that you can't identify other animagus, and that is why the MoM has a registry for them, because they have no other way of knowing.

I have been thinking a lot about the ginger hair thing. How strange is it that there are so many people/pets with red or ginger hair. It has to mean something. Perhaps a connection to Dumbledore.

what is with the red hair

Very good point, Sherry. Like the color of Lily's and Harry's eyes are going to have some significant point... this too might be important to the story.

I hope book 6 gives us a clue what is being done to protect Harry.

Should we move on to Chapter 3?

Yes, I think that we should. We're not getting too much participation in this though, are we? Just like in the Tolkien forum with you and Shadow!

Go ahead and start the chapter analysis off, and I will follow with some info, okay?

*****CHAPTER THREE*****
THE ADVANCE GUARD

Chapter 3 sees a confused and depressed Harry locked in his room by the Dursleys. He writes notes to Hermione, Ron, and Sirius and sends Hedwig off with orders to get a full response in writing from each of them.

The Dursley's leave. A crash, Harry's door comes open. The advance guard shows up to take Harry back to headquaters. The guard consists of:
Alastor Moody
Remus Lupin
Nymphadora Tonks
Kingsley Shacklebolt
Elphias Doge
Dedalus Diggle
Emmenline Vance
Sturgis Podmore
Hestia Jones

Items of interest in this chapter. Tonks is a metamorphmagus. She can change her appearance at will. You have to be born one. Another item is the disillusionment charm. It is a chamelion type charm.

They all fly to headquaters with Moody saying that there could be the risk of death to the guard. Harry is to go on nomatter what. So, we know that moving Harry is a problem, and that Dumbledore has taken great precautions. They set down and give Harry a note to read.

THOUGHTS? COMMENTS?

Please see my thread Metamorphmagus to explore my new theory on Harry.

There is a huge theory out there that James and Remus Lupin used a switching spell to change bodies. Something about James having to survive to save the other wizards. How could this be true

*Lupin makes body contact with Harry, arm around him, pat on the back, that he does not with other wizards
*he has a huge interest in Harry

Some FAQs (frequently asked questions).

What's the difference between a metamorphmagus and an animagus?

Both metamorphmagi animagi aare people who have the ability to transfigure. The primary difference seems to be that one is a human-to-human transformation and the other is a human-to-animal transformation - although that is not confirmed. For instance, Tonks can change her appearance rather dramatically, but as far as we know, she retains human form. Another big difference is that the Metamorphmagi are born with the natural ability to alter their features without and training, while animagus wannabes have to diligently study highly-advanced transfiguration, which they may never be able to master.


What is the difference between disillusionment and invisibility?

You can find out all about the Disillusionment charms from the Fantastic Beasts book. However, we don't know how they work exactly until book 5. Unlike the invisibility cloak, the disillusionment charm doesn't make you invisible - it just makes you blend in with the background. So, it isn't perfect. If you get too close to someone, it will be obvious, and if you move around a lot, people would notice a distortion in the background. If probably looks as if the background is shifting in the same way the Romulan "cloaking devices" from Star Trek cause a ripple in space.


Was Tonks the last Auror selected from Hogwarts?

In Chapter 29 {"Careers Advice"}, Professor McGonagall told Harry that they haden't selected an Auror candidate from Hogwarts in the last three years. She also described how Aurors have to take an extra three years of training. That means, if the person who was selected three years ago is now an Auror, that person would have just completed their training, and qualified this year. However, Tonks has already been an Auror for a year, plus she sounded a bit apologetic about it - as if it took her even longer then some people. So, it doesn't seem as if she was the last (and I wonder who that person will turn out to be).

Wouldn't it be funny if Percy's girlfriend was the Auror? I think Percy is on his way to Deatheater status.

HINTS


* Items of Intrigue *

PODMORE CLUES One of the members of the Advanced Guard was Sturgis Podmore. If you think carefully, you should be able to remember where you've seen that name before. Going through Chapter 8 of Book 2 may help, but don't go losing your head over it or you may be the guest of honor at the next Deathday Party.

DEDALUS DIGGLE Another member of the Advanced Guard was Dedalus Diggle. The direct path to any clues in his first name is through mythology (note slight spelling difference) and also to Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man , by James Joyce.

TONKS Nymphadora Tonks has a muggle father. His name is Ted. We do know another Ted from Chapter 1 of Book 1.

SHACKLEBOLT The name "Kingsley Shacklebolt" conjures up images of boung servitude - yet his shackles may have "unusual" restraints. If you suddenly encountered a very large, dark, bald magical person with an incredibly deep voice and an earring in one ear, what would you ask him?

Her name was Penelope Clearwater. She was a Ravenclaw Prefect.

Thank you... I just could NOT, for the life of me, remember her name.
Too much info bouncing around in my head right now...

I can remember entirely too much HP, like me remembering that Harry grew hair. LOTR, well, my brain cells don't remember as much as I would like.

it will be great if it was penelope Clearwater

Looking back, I don't think the timing is right for it to have been Penelope, but what a delicious thought-mwah ha ha ha.

Didn't McGonagall say that they had not accepted anyone in the last 3 years? We would have to look for an older student than Penelope. One in the year above Percy. I could be wrong about the years though.

Hmm. Remind me, what was the whole thing on Marcus Flint about? He stayed in Hogwarts a year too long, right? Apparently JKR said it was her mistake, but hmm... what year it was? Maybe *he* was the student who got accepted to Aurors training team and had to stay in school a year longer for more lessons. None of the students stay after their 7th year, but then again, practically none of the students goes to Aurors training. It would be a huge surprise if he turned out to be *the* Auror. What do you think?
The Penelope Clearwater theory is awesome! Ha ha ha it would be funny to see Percy when he finds out about the occupation of his girl. *LoL*

PS. Guys, sorry I'm not posting very often, but it's such a mess here, I have loads of schoolwork and we're preparing for the carnival next week! Can't wait for that... and I'm not even telling you what costumes me and my friends are gonna be wearing. Being Americans, mostly, you would freak out... yeap, I guess it wouldn't be funny to you, but it's such a great joke here...

I don't mind because i too have lots of schoolwork that's why i've not been turning up lately

Guys, there's no punishment awaiting you if you don't visit the forum everyday (I hope), just as long as we all take a little time out now and then to talk to one another. Sorry if that was a bit off-topic.

We expect you guys to have lives. Just don't forget about us. Post when you can.

Penelope Clearwater an Auror? Yeah that'll be interesting. Imagine the look on Percy's face if he finds out. Anyway I think he's been acting like a real jerk in Book 5 and yes, maybe he'll become a Death Eater but I do think that he probably will apologise to his whole family. And you know...his father, sister and his bros won't be that keen on accepting his apology so soon though Mrs. Weasley probably would.I just think that what he did to his own family was,like,mad or something.

Tonks is a lovely new character. Imagine having the ability to change your own appearance at will. Wonder if Harry will soon be learning to be like one or an animagi at least...he did seem very interested in it.

J.K. Rowling has said in interviews that Harry will not be an animagus. That means he still could be a metamorphmagus.

Oh man... like you have I have discussed, Sherry... this could be possible.
Maybe the introduction of Tonks, and her abilities is something that is to foreshadow for something new in Harry. Something that he will discover!

Picture this. Harry is back home at Privet Drive. He is bored, thinks of Tonks, and out of sheer boredom tries to make his hair change color! Poof! Orange hair. It could happen. OR more likely, he would try to make his scar disappear.

That would be a big surprise of the H.P. series!That was a great theorie Fuscia

Chapter 4 will be posted tomorrow. Everyone dust off your books and be ready.

CHAPTER 4- NUMBER TWELVE GRIMMAULD PLACE
Harry arrives at Grimmauld Place, headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix. Harry learns that Dumbledore did not want Ron and Hermione to tell him anything of importance. We see a different Harry emerge. He is angry and defiant. He actually yells at Ron and Hermione. Fred and George have invented Extendable Ears and have passed their apparation test. Ginny is also a very different person. Ginny lies to her mum without flinching. Percy has gotten a promotion and has left the family. Harry learns that he is being made a joke in the wizarding community Fudge and the Daily Prophet. At the very end of the chapter, Sirius emerges and Harry learns that Grimmauld place is his home.

Points to Ponder

Grimmauld Place -Grim old place- phonetically that is. Something to think about also is that a Grim is a death omen. Could this be a clue?

Something moving behind the skirting board -is this significant and what could it have been? A RAT perhaps?

Portraits -Mrs. Weasley covered up the portraits to keep them quiet and asleep. We learn more and more about what protraits do. Could Mrs. Black be reporting to Deatheaters? After all, Phineas Nigellus reports to Dumbledore.

Yes, Grim could be a clue. Sirius himself is an animagus who can turn into a dog, just like the Grim.

Hey, I was surfing around online and found your forums, I think their very interesting. I would like to join you guys, but I'm extremely busy right now. So I can't promise anything, however I hope to post more, and maybe add some of my own insight once in awhile.

Welcome Daemon. Join in when you can. We are happy to have you here.

Finally you guys continued this.......

Grim old place......nice one!I never thought about that!

About the rat,I dont think Peter could get into th place as he does not know where it is....anyway Dubledore is the secret keeper and I dont think Dumbledore would tell peter..

hey guys! not to sure what ya'll are doing here but i want in! someone tell me what im supose to do? man is it ever good being back here!!

We have been going through book 5, chapter by chapter, looking for clues, and other things. Discussing it. We're currently on chapter 4, I believe.

ok... i think i understand! this is going to be so much fun! i love being back here! i don't know why i left!

I don't know why you did either. I pm'd you awhile back, looking for you!

hey, thanks for letting me join! we're still on ch four right? I've read the book once or twice before, but now that i reread ch. 4 i noticed something i hadnt really paid much attention to. The line on page 60 " The others' hushed voices were giving Harry an odd feeling of foreboding; it was as though he had just entered the house of a dying person." I don't know if this was supposed to be a big but suttle hint, or if it's just a coincidence though.
Also the bit about snape sounds rather suspicious as well.

Daemon, I missed that part. Thanks for pointing it out. I think Harry has a very good sense of danger. It has to mean something, or it would not be in there.

By the way, cool name. My son is named Damon.

Is that when Harry enters the Black house for the first time? Does it mean he could have, deep inside, known Sirius was going to die? At least felt it?

Hmm... well, I didn't refresh myself for this, so I'm not sure where we're at

Yes that is the chapter where he goes into the house. I think you are right Grant, Harry knew something bad was going to happen.

I will post Chapter 5 in a day or so.

Maybe it's an indication that Harry is a seer. Just doesn't know it yet.

he's probably prophesise her death every day

I would...

CHAPTER 5 DISCUSSION AND REVIEW
Summary
*Chapter is called Order of the Phoenix
*We learn most what the Order has been doing
*The goblins have not picked sides in the war yet.
*The family eats with fine silver and Lupin is present at the table
*Sirius and Molly fight over giving Harry information about the Order.

This is the chapter where Fred and George accidently send a knife landing on the spot where Sirius's hand is supposed to be, right?? Could that be another sign about his death??
And what is Snape doing for the Order anyway??

Hey, that's a good pick up, Ronnikins. I didn't even think anything about that knife.
It could be a hint of something that is to come...
Or, instead of it being death... that he survives, even though death comes to claim him?

ANYTHING that allows Lupin to survive is wonderful to me.

Hey guys, sorry I haven't posted for awhile.. stupid ap tests.. anyway, im back! I don't see anything past ch 5, we should probably start on 6 soon doncha think?

I will post Chapter six tomorrow Daemon. Welcome back.

CHAPTER 6 THE NOBLE AND MOST ANCIENT HOUSE OF BLACK
In this Chapter we learn that Sirius is from an ancient line of pure blood wizards. There is a huge tapestry that has the family tree on it. Harry learns that Sirius is related to the Weasleys, The Malfoys, Tonks, and Bellatrix Lestrange.

When Sirius was in school, he left home. He did not get along with his pure blood crazed parents. James' parents considered him a second son, and he spend a lot of time with the Potter family. Sirius also had a younger brother named Regulus who became a death eater. His parents were not death eaters, but they did support the pure blood ideals of Voldemort.

Harry, the kids, Sirius, and Mrs. Weasley spend their days cleaning the house. It is infested with all types of creatures and has many dangerous dark objects in it.

We learn that Lupin stays at Grimmauld Place, but that he is away for long periods of time doing something for the Order.

END OF SUMMARY

Points to ponder
*Notice who was missing from the tapestry? All pure blood wizards are supposed to be related, so did you catch who was missing from the tapestry?

*The music box. There was a music box that they found in the house that played an eerie music and put people to sleep. Could Kreacher have taken it away? Could that be what caused Arthur Weasley to fall alseep on guard duty in the Ministry leading to his attack?

If I remember correctly there were other ciggarate burns on the family tree.Could there be another Black alive?

Correct Nion. Mrs. Black would burn out members who had married muggles or became blood traitors. There could be other members.

missing? as in like voldmort himself? or missing as in somone else. but then again if voldmort wasnt married and a lot of those dark wizards even though their all related, most were connected through marriage werne they? also good point about kretcher. Well for those of us who read the whole thing already, we basically know why they should be being nicer to kretcher. Although personally, living in that house i would have just chopped off his head and hung it with the rest. He wanted that anyway right.. and well it was risky having him around like that. Speaking of Jame's parents, do we ever hear about what happens to them? All we really ever have gotten about harrys family until now was when harry looked into the mirror or erised. I'm sure he must have seen them then. But how did they die? Were they too killed by voldmort? It would be nice if harry eventually found a family tree. Because honestly I think he still has other relatives out there, maybe distant distant that wouldn't know a thing about him, and definetly would not have enough of Lilly's blood to protect him probably, but it would still be nice.

Voldemort would never be on the Black family tree because he was not a pure blood. I was thinking of Snape, Crabbe, Goyle, guys like that.

Harry's grandparents according to J.K. Rowling don't have a significant story for us to worry about. Still, I wonder because we know that they were pure bloods and that wizards live a very long time. It just does not make sense to me at all.

Daemon, I too would have had Kreacher's head on a plaque.

hm ive also been thinking, about the screaming mrs black does. Because while it may be there just for show, and it all sounds just like muttering about whats going on in the house, could it be possible that theres a hidden clue? Because she screams quite a bit and JK makes quite a scene of it. Also is it maybe even possible that mrs black is transporting info. Like all the old head masters can travel to different places because they have portraits elsewhere. But im wondering if its possible that other dark relatives have potraits of mrs black, possibly even the malfoys. She could be running back and forth sharing info.

Maybe Snape , Goyle, Crabbe are there but are not mentioned. Draco surely wouldn't hang around riff raff that aren't pure blood.
Could it be that Sirius hasn't told Harry more things about his family and more about him running away from them?? Coz Mrs. Black sure hated him...
Btw, can anyone tell me the meaning of 'Toujours pur'?? Is it latin or something??
Yes, Kreacher should be decapitated!!

well i know jour is definetly " day , or the day" and in french pur means pure, but in italian it means "simply" i think tou is italian, so it probalby means simply the day or something

another thing about voldmort being on there, well he himself wasnt a pure blood, but his mother was, right? so wouldnt she be on there if she was related. And I highly doubt that even though he wasnt a pure blood if his mother was related to the blacks some how, they would leave off the husband and put him on there too. Because honestly would anyone that supported him like that pass up the chance to have Voldmort on their family tree? However I don't think he is other wise sirius would most certainly have mentioned it. I just wanted to point that out as reasoning for why i asked if voldmort was the one you were talking about missing.

another thing, sirius never really told harry much about his family before. Like Jame's parents or aunts and uncles, and surely he would have known Lilly's too. I wonder if he never spoke about them because he never had the chance, or if he didnt want to upset harry by bringing it up, or if theres a very good reason he left it out, kind of like the info on whats in hermiones wand is left out. or maybe it really is simply not important and would add an extra unessicary page.

i don't think there are any portraits of sirius, because well after sirius " betrayed his family" wouldn't they have been destroyed? if there were any in the first place? and what good would keeping it around do?

Oh, thank you for that...so that would mean, only pure bloods allowed!! Who, of course, married pure bloods too. fuscia's right, thats why Voldemores mum isn't there. Nobody knew he was going to be 'evil' when he grew up. Do you think that the Blacks did consider putting his name back after that?
Dumbledore made the house known only to those he chose too and he did add on his own protective spell, didn't he? What if there are other portraits of Mrs. Black but she can't tell them the exact location? There could be none though...

Right Icklie Ronnikins, Mrs. Black would not be able to reveal the location of the order, or should I say that the people she told would not be able to find it. Notice that the portrait is covered up all the time. I think it may put her to sleep.

I doubt Mrs. Black wanted Voldemort on the list since he was responsible for her favorite son's death.

alright you got me on that one. lol

I suppose now that there are protections on the house the place wouldnt be given away, but who's to say that other information isnt being passed on by mrs black? She may have told the malfoys of sirius being able to turn into a dog, we only assumed he was seen on platform3/4. Although the platform explaination makes more sense. But there are other things she could be sharing, such as whos in the order. She may not be telling others what the order is talking about, but can't she see people coming in and out? Even just the info on who's in the order could bring people in harms way. And there are loads of things, such as harry potter and sirius's relationship she could be spreading around, just like kretcher did. They could have put a spell on the portrait, but we know that not all the portraits had spells, because phineas could obviously come and go when he pleased or needed. I think it would be great though if Harry could get a portrait of sirius, because portraits can talk, and although it wouldn't be as good as talking to the real sirius.. wouldn't talking to a portrait image of him be better than nothing? Anyway, shouldn't we start moving onto the 7th ch soon?