Book 5 - A complete walk through discussion

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She thinks that they are brainwashed, being abused in servitude and they should be free.

M.

She obviously hasn't read about them enough. They like their servitude. Dobby is just different. I mean he served the Malfoys. I think most house elves would want to be free from them.

What I mean though is how is Hermione's obsession with S.P.E.W important to the story? JKR has a reason for everything, so it's not just some random thing to keep Hermione busy. There's something more to it. I'm sure we will be finding out in the last two books.

Yes. Dumbledore has hinted before how the wizards have been treating their fellow magical creatures unfairly and now they are reaping the results. The house-elfs will definitely have an improtant role to play, hopefully for the good side.

What about goblins? Bill was shown discussing about them with Mr. Weasley. What do you guys think about them?

M.

The reference that Dumbledore made had more to do with Goblins and Centaurs. The goblins are not treated accordingly, and Professor Binn's has spent how many YEARS lecturing about the goblin wars? More than a few.

House elves and S.P.E.W. This shows that Hermione's weakness is her arrogance that she is always right. It is in the nature of a house elf to serve. She can not change and should not try to change what makes them happy. I think the lesson in the house-elves is one of tolerance and acceptance of other being different.

I dont know if its just me or if anyone else has noticed too.

This ch. seems to be really really decietful and ironic. I mean i dno i just noticed this but has anyone noticed how many lies and deceitful things are going around in this book, especially this ch. I can't believe i didn't notice this before but one of the main reasons Dolores was probably upset when she thought harry was lying, was cuz she was lying to the ministry. What if the whole ganging up on harry thing was almost a way of her taking her anger out because she has a guilty concience, or possibly because she is just afraid that somone will find out her secret.

There are a lot of other lies and deceitful things we see in this book:

Snape teaching harry occlumency so harry can hide stuff from voldmort

Dumbledore has been hiding the truth about harry.

The quibbler is all about lies, and untrue stories

Ron is hiding from harry that he wants to be quidditch keeper

Dolores is lying about the dementors

Everyone thinks harry is lying about voldmort

Harry hides the scars on his hand that say " I will not tell lies" from his friends

Harry hides other feelings from his friends.

Hagrid trys to hide grawp

Hermione hides the clothing from the house elves.

Harry realizes people haven't been completely truthful about his dad.

Sirius is in hiding.

Kretcher lies to harry when he goes to see if sirius is still there.

The newspaper is spreading tons of lies and rumors about harry and dumbledore.

The room of requirement is a secret hidden room.

And those are just a few things. Im not saying that there havent been lies and stuff in other books, but in this one the theme of hiding things and lies, and deceit and the truth coming out seems to be more prominent. I don't know if its relevant or even important. It's just something I noticed.

Great job Liz. There is a lot of people telling lies in this book. We also get to see the consequences of the lies as well. Dumbledore's lie was a lie of omission to Harry, but it still had a terrible effect-the loss of Sirius.

What about Umbridge' quill? Who else would use such a quill and why?

Well, I think that her quill should have been confiscated. I can't see that quill being something that would have been allowed to use on students. I would hope that Harry, or one of the other kids, lets Dumbledore know, and this brought up and dealt with.

I hope that Harry tells Dumbledore and that the Ministry brings the hag up on charges of hurting a student.

Wouldn't it be great it they brought her up on charges, and allowed Harry to decide the punishment.

Hmmmm... like maybe having to spend time with Firenze!! That would kill her.

Her punishment should be having to write, I will not abuse Hogwarts students, until she has a permanent scar.

hmmmm scar, isnt it kind of ironic that harry is known for his scar, and umbridge trys to give him another one? maybe its coincidence...

He gets the second scar by being accused of lying about the dude that gave him the first scar...hmmmmm, coincidence?

Next chapter will be posted Saturday.

Good! I'll re read that chapter tonight before I go to bed.

same

CHAPTER 14 PERCY AND PADFOOT *Harry writes a coded message to Sirius telling him how awful Umbridge is, that Hagrid is still missing, and that his scar hurt when Umbridge touched him. Filtch tries to confiscate his letter, but it had already been sent. Filtch claimed that Harry was supposed to be ordering dung bombs
*Cho shows more interest in Harry
*Sturgis Podmore is arrested and sentenced to six months in Azkaban for trespass at the Ministry.
*Ron has difficulty training with the Slytherins taunting him.
*Percy sends Ron a letter at night. It tells him to be wary of Harry who he believes is unstable and dangerous. He also reinforces his allegiance with Fudge and Umbridge and urges Ron to help Umbridge. He also hints that Dumbledore will not be in charge much longer at Hogwarts.
*Sirius' appears in the fire and talks to Harry and co. He explains that the Ministry does not want the students to learn any DADA spells because they fear that Dumbledore will use them to fight the Ministry. Sirius wants to go to Hogsmeade as a dog, but Harry says the risk is too great. Sirius gets angry and leaves

END OF SUMMARY

When Harry's in the Owlery, right before Cho comes in, he looks outside the window, above the forest and sees the threstrals. (Think I spelled that right.)

Who told Filch that Harry was placing an order for Dungbombs?

Umbridge. What a slimy toad.

M.

There wasn't much in this chapter to talk about. Shall we move on?

CHAPTER 15 THE HOGWARTS HIGH INQISITOR
*Umbridge is appointed high inquisitor at Hogwarts. She now has the power to inspect teachers.
*The kids get a clue as to how they will do on their owls if they were taking them right now. Harry does horribly in Potions.
*Umbridge inspects Trelawney and upsets her terribly.
*Umbridge takes points from Gryffindor for Hermiones outburst in DADA. Harry gets detention again for defending her.
*Professor McGonagall warns Harry to control his temper around Dolores
*Umbridge inspects McGonagall, but McGonagall lets her know that she is running her classroom.
*Hermione suggests, and Ron agrees, that Harry should teach them DADA

END OF SUMMARY

Welcome to the HP forum of INReview, syndil. Dive right on in and join us in conversation.

In the Daily Prophet, Percy is named as Junior Assistant to the Minister. Is this a promotion?

The article says that Umbridge is given the job because DD couldn't find anyone else. Why didn't Snape go for it?

Lucius Malfoy is 41

Trelawney has been a teacher for 16 years
McGonagall, 39 years

When Umbridge asks Trelawney to make a prediction, she tells her she is in "grave danger"

Trelwaney is described as having long fingers. Doesn't the length of a wizard's fingers mean something?

When Harry returns from detention he is pleased to see Hermione because she is sympathetic. She has prepared a solution of Murtlap tentacles for his hand.

Possibly Hermione could be a future healer. She's certainly taking the right classes. And it's something her parents would approve of. Kind of like a doctor.

When Hermione suggests that he teach them DADA, he becomes extremely angry, but there isn't a good reason for all the anger.

Hermione says Voldemort's name for the first time in this chapter, and when she does, it calms Harry.

He dreams about long corridors and locked doors. Wakes with his scar prickling.

Hermione and Ron, of all people, should realize that Harry hasn't done any of this stuff on his own. I mean, they are always there for him, and he wouldn't be as successful without them.

As much as Snape wants the DADA position, Dumbledore continues to hire loser after loser instead.

Umbridge was not a choice of Dumbledores. She was selected by the Ministry.

JKR said once that the reason Snape does not get the DADA job is because Dumbledore feels it will bring out the worst in him.

Yes fuscia i agree. Also harry has a lot on his mind with OWLS and umbridge without having to worry about handling a club. Plus even though hermione thinks it will help it almost seems to harry like fuscia said that having the club and teaching defense spells would lull them into a false sense of security, which is exactly the opposite of what he wants.

Also heather, dumbledore did not hire loser after loser, quirrel used to be a good teacher until he got voldmort stuck in the back of his head, lockhart was a loser, lupin was most definetly a great teacher and not a loser at all, and mad eye moody would have been very good as well i expect if he hadn't of been captured in his own trunk, umbridge was not dumbledores choice.

You know i wonder if we should be paying any closer attention to these potions and spells. I mean in the 2nd book we saw the polyjuice potion, which played a big role in the 4th book. I wonder if we will see murtlap again, or any of these other things mentioned.

Liz, great observations. Lupin was an excellent teacher and fake Moody too. Harry learned how to throw of the Imperius curse completely under fake Moody. Lupin taught him how to produce a patronus. Both of these things kept Harry alive.

I think we should look at potions and spells. She ususally plants a seed and it is important in the future.

Wow, I missed a lot of things!!! I think fuscia's right. The murtlap and Neville's plant could prove to be useful in the upcoming books.
Harry refuses to do it at first coz he's concern for their safety, I mean, he surely didn't want another Cedric Diggory incident.

Ickle Ronnikins, nice to see you in this thread. If someone eats pickled murtlap it gives them resistance to curses and jinxes. I think Harry needs to add it to his diet.

i want to discuss the walkthrough with u and fibd out the hidden secrets

Welcome! Waleed.

We're currently discussing chapter 15, Hogwarts High Inquisiter.

waleed welcome to INReview. Please join the discussion. We will start chapter 16 in the next few days.

thanks for the great welcome

i wanted to say somethin that is not about chapter15
remenber at the end when bane said that 'the second war has begun'i think this might be the name of the 6th book
harrypotter and the second war

Great thought Waleed. It would be very fitting.

That would be a good title for the final book.

Shall we move on to the next chapter?

Yes!

CHAPTER 16 IN THE HOG'S HEAD
*Hermione persuades a group of students to meet at the Hog's Head on the next Hogsmeade weekend to hear about taking lessons from Harry.
*The bar is dingy, smells of goats, and the barman looks familiar to Harry
*20 or so students show up and sign a parchment to agree to take lessons.
*We find out that the portraits in Dumbledore's office gossip with students and tell about Harry's adventures.
*The defense group is named Dumbledore's Army
*Ginny is dating Michael Corner. Ron is not happy about that.
End of Summary

I believe that the barman is Alberforth Dumbledore. The Hog's Head smelled of goats, the barman looked familiar, and was old with long hair and a beard. We know that Alberforth got into trouble in the past for performing an illegal spell on a goat. I think that this is him.

One other point of interest, Viktor Krum said that Harry could do spells that he could not do. Krum was in his last year at Durmstrang. Very interesting.

Did you notice what they were working on when Hermione brought up the subject? They were looking up Asiatic Anti Venoms and Hermione was copying a diagram of a Chinese Chomping Cabbage...Homework assignments tend to be clues.

Great job Heather. I will see if I can find anything about them.

I think it is from the picture too.

It appears that there has been nothing written so far about the Cabbages. I do think it is a clue.

Here's a section...

"Ron looked around at her so fast he appeared to crick his neck; rubbing it, he said, "Yeah? What did Vicky say?"
"Ho ho," said Hermione in a bored voice. "He said Harry knows how to do stuff even he didn't, and he was in the final year at Durmstrang."
Ron was looking at Hermione suspiciously.
"You're not still in contact with him, are you?"
"So what if I am?" said Hermione coolly, though her face was a little pink. " I can have a pen pal if I--"
"He didn't only want to be your pen pal," said Ron accusingly.


Like Sherry mentioned, it's interesting a fifth year would know more than someone in their final year at a school known for the Dark Arts.

There's some clues to the romantic sub plot here too. It's interesting that the words suspiciously and accusingly are used. Does Ron have a right to be that jealous?

There are 3 possibilities...
1 Ron and Hermione are dating and Ron feels that she is cheating by staying in contact with Krum.
2 Ron and Hermione are not dating, Krum and Hermione are having a long distance relationship. (this is highly unlikely)
3 Hermione is currently not dating anyone, but is trying to use Krum to make Ron jealous.

I think they either are dating or on the verge of dating. Perhaps Hermione likes Krum as a friend, and he is usefull to yank Ron's chain.

These are the people who attended the meeting

Harry Potter
Hermione Granger
Ron Weasley
Neville Longbottem
Dean Thomas
Lavender Brown
Parvati Patil
Padma Patil
Cho Chang
Cho's curly haired friend
Luna Lovegood
Katie Bell
Alicia Spinnet
Angelina Johnson
Colin Creevey
Dennis Creevey
Ernie MacMillan
Justin Finch-Fletchley
Hannah Abbot
Susan Bones
Anthony Goldstein
Michael Corner
Terry Boot
Ginny Weasley
Fred Weasley
George Weasley
Lee Jordan
Zacharias Smith


Almost everyone I expected to be there is there. Someone's missing.

Luna said that Fudge has his own private army of heliopaths (spirits of fire)

Hermione thinks this is ridiculous.

But Hermione has been known to be wrong on occasion. While Luna is a bit "different" she really hasn't been wrong yet.

Hermione has a certain dislike for Luna.

It finally dawns on Harry why Ginny never used to talk to him---Boys can be so stupid when it comes to girls. Hermione mentions that it's been months since Ginny's gotten over him. Could it have been right after the ball?

2 things that struck me the third time I read through the chapter.


1) Harry is barely keeping up with schoolwork because of Quidditch and detention. Ron can't keep up because of Quidditch and prefect duties.
Hermione however, is taking more classes than both of them, has prefect duties and still has time for knitting, with lots of time to spare. I know she is wildly focused and very bright, but she can't possibly be that good. Remember, the last time she was that good she had a time turner. Could something else be going on with her now. Her character is so mysterious sometimes. There's something peculiar about her.

2)What was that lethal looking metal instrument George threatened Zacharias Smith with?

Hermione has a normal schedule now. SHe gave up muggle studies and divination. Her extra courses are Ancient Runes and Arithmancy. Wait, maybe that is one more class.

I wonder about that instrument also. Very odd.

But why does she still have sooo much time. She's not nearly as busy as the boys.

I was raised in a Catholic home so I know there is a St. Zacharias. Does anyone know anything about him?

Maybe they use it to open the doxy eggs.

i think wat krum meant was that harry knew the patronus spell and he didnt and lots of wizards so that could be wat he meant.
and dont u think that it is strange hermoine never thought that the umbrigde made harry use for dentention used dark arts.

Krum did not know Harry could produce a patronus. He did not use one in the Tri-wizard tournament. He used it in the third book and on Privet Drive to save himself and Dudley. I think some of the spells Harry studied up on and learned were what Krum was referring to in his comment to Hermione.

Excellent point about Umbridge Waleed. I am glad you joined the discussion.

Sherry... that was in book FIVE that Harry used the patronus spell to save himself and Dudley... not the third book.

Kris, I said he used the spell in the third book AND on Privet drive.

OH... see, I'm a little slow today, seeings that I'm just completely wiped out from work.

hey it could be that krum asked what kind of spells harry could do and hermoine told him about the patronus.

EXPECTO PATRONUM(S)

True, Hermione would want to make conversation on her first date as well.

I don't think Hermione would give away secrets to Krum about Harry. She's fiercely loyal.

I still think that he was referring to the tasks that he did in the tournament.

I don't think Hermione would have told Krum anything about what Harry could or could not do.

honestly , i dno if she would tell or not, on one hand well i mean harry saved her life with the patronous spell. Why wouldnt she brag about it? and if she liked victor then even though she would want harry to win, she probably would be more careless when it came to ruining his chances by letting victor in on some secrets. On the other hand shes always been fairly loyal for the most part, and isnt stupid. It's not like hermione is the type of person to let something like that just slip out for happy conversation.

About the whole, ron and hermione are dating thing, i dont think they are. harry would have noticed. I think that they like each other but are too shy to say, and quite honestly are too busy, and worried about harry to do much about their feelings. I do think however that hermione uses krum to be sort of a leash on ron. Hermione is one of those people that are for " rights" like house elves. I get the feeling that its the same when it comes to womens rights, and that she doesnt like being controlled. Ron being jealous is well, it can seem kind of controlling.

Also what does zarcharias ( sp?) mean... i would like to know the story and meaning of the name.

And that leathal looking weapon we heard about , it may come up it may not. Although i would expect to see it in the future more if she had said something about a " leathal sounding spell" or something like that.

Also when it comes to hermione having more time than the other two. Well it seems like harry has the busiest schedule, then ron, then hermione. We also have to keep in mind that even if hermione is taking on an extra class, she has much better time management than ron and harry, who seem to save everything till the last minute. Plus Hermione understands things better in some situations. I mean she seems like the type of person who can read or hear something once and remember it. Harry and ron just dont . So hermione would probably have an easier time doing homework. Plus we know that the kids stay up late... i mean hermione could be knitting well into the night, and also she uses magic on her knitting doesnt she? that could also speed up the load.

it could be that someone related to krum was in the ministry of magic and cause the whole ministry of magic knew about the privet drive so he could have known ffrom there

Hermione specifically told Ron that Krum had not asked any questions about Harry, when Ron accused her of consorting with the enemy. We all know Hermione is the most honest of the trio, so I still think she's told Krum nothing about what Harry can or cannot do, including the patronus.

I agree with daemon about Ron and Hermione having feelings for each other, but both are too shy to admit it and are too concerned about their mutual friend Harry to really pursue it anyway. I like the comparison of women's rights and elf rights. It is all about control. Good job, Daemon!

Daemon also explained the whole time management thing well, and it does make sense how she has more time than the boys. Thanks.

Now, about Krum, there is no evidence that Krum is a bad guy. In fact, he's probably one of the good guys. As much as he wanted to win against Harry, I don't think he wanted to hurt him. I tend to trust Hermione's judgement.

Zacharias may just be a name that JKR liked and it may mean nothing at all. I did some research about St. Zacharias but couldn't find any parallels to HP, unless I missed something.

but dont u think he could have known from the ministry of magic

yeah
then how wat do u think krum as reffering to.i think it could be that because krums school was famous in dark arts so they didnt know much about other spells. (just a guess)

wingardium leviosa

I think we should keep our discussion about Krum in the GoF thread or you can create a new thread just for discussing him. Let's get back to book 5 here.

ok
ill do that
if u noticed anything tell me quickly
im dying to know.


wingardium leviosa

i looked up the meaning of Zacharias and its derived from Zachariah the biblical name. He was a prophet of the old testiment.. could this mean that Zacharias may possibly be a seer? Does anyone remember if he had divination?

OOOH! Maybe! Good find!

What house is he in? He may not have divination with the Gryffindors.

Zacharias is in Hufflepuff.

M.

Well, I think Gryffindors have Divination with Ravenclaw, so we really don't know. I think we need to pay attention to what he has to say. If he is a Seer, he may give away a clue.

Click on this link... it's in the reference sub forum within the HP forum.

http://www.inreview.com/showthread....652&forumid=438

It will tell you the meanings of the names. Zacharias means, God Remembered.

hey if u can find out what house padma patil and her sister are we can which house has divinition with gryffindor

Padma is Ravenclaw, Parvati is Gryfindor.

could u tell me which two girls were the ones who liked the divinition proffessor

Lavender Brown and Parvati Patil worshipped Professor Trelawney.

Lavender and Parvati are both Gryffindor.

yep, a lot of the names dont match up with their meanings, but like when it comes to zachariah or zacharius i think we also have to take into account famous people that had these names and what they did.

zacharius is a book writer, its a name of a movie.
Ezrael Curze Zacharius Nomore Lucretia was the name of an actor.zacharius is the name of a band. i checked it on yahoo and there are many famouse people and things so it could mean anything. but i think jk rowling just used the book writers name because maybe she really liked this writers books

Sorry all, I have been swamped with work all over the site. I will post the next chapter tomorrow.

That's okay, Sherry. This chapter drew in a lot of attention. There was a lot to discuss.

Thanks Heather. I just felt like I was neglecting everyone here. This forum is where my heart is on the board. It is such a special place.

CHAPTER 17 EDUCATIONAL DECREE NUMBER TWENTY-FOUR *A notice is put up in all the Common Rooms.
It is Educational Decree Number 24.
*Any club, society, team, group or organization is disbanded and must ask for permission to re-form.
*A group of 3 or more that meets regularly fits this criteria.


*we learn that boys can not get into the girls dormitory.
*Hermione put a jinx on the list the D.A. signed. She would know who sold them out if one of them had told Umbridge.
*Someone overheard the meeting at the hogshead, but who?
*Hedwig is attacked trying to return a post to Harry
*Professor Binns lectures on Giant Wars
*McGonagall warns Harry that all communication in and out of Hogwarts is being watched.
*Malfoy taunts the Gryffindors, and Neville tries to attack Malfoy for his mean comments about St. Mungo's patients.
*Snape's class is inspected and Umbridge find fault with the potions he is teaching.
*Trelawnery is put on probation
*Sirius appears in the fire again
*he says that Mundungus was the witch under the veil in the HogsHead. Dung was banned from the HH 20years ago
*Mrs. Weasley does not want them in a D.A. group, but Sirius loves the idea.
*Hermione has second thoughts because of Sirius's approval.
*Umbridges fat hand appears in the fire and almost catches Sirius

Harry's in a better mood at the beginning of this chapter.

What's the point in telling us boys aren't allowed in the girls' dormitory.

Boys were considered more untrustworthy than girls, yet we learn later that the sneak is a girl. I think it is a red herring on JKR's part.

How did Hermione put a jinx on that parchment. I know she's clever, but that sounds like some seriously advanced magic.

Why isn't Umbridge observing Binns? Is she underestimating the Hogwarts Ghosts?

Neville tried to beat up Malfoy before Harry and Ron stopped him. This gave me a whole new respect for Neville.

Binn's does not really understand that he is dead. So, if he is that focused on teaching, then he could not be contributing to Dumbledore's supposed plan to take over the Ministry.

The lesson in Umbridge's Class---"The Case for Non-Offensive Responses to Magical Attack"

This is of course alluding to Harry's experience with the dementors during the summer.

I thought Hermione said something about the no-boys-in-the-girls'-dorm thing in book 1...

Did she? I don't remember that. Oh, and I like your location. I think most of America's there right now.

She didn't. Ron just asked her how did she enter the boy's dormitory. She just brushed it aside I think.

M.

The girls can go up the steps to the boys dormitory.. but there are spells laid down on the girls stairs to keep all boys from entering.

When was Hermione in the boy's dorm in book 1?

On Christmas I think.

M.

Hermione wasn't there for Christmas in book 1.

Hmmm. I don't remember as much then. She does come up for Christmas in Book 3.

M.

Yeah but in book three we already know girls can get into the dormitory because Ginny stole Riddle's diary from Harry's trunk.

Hmmm. Does she come up in Book 1 to tell them about the restricted area in the library?

M.

No. They were in the Great Hall or the Common Room.

i think she came up to tell them about the sorcerers stone and who built it

No, she told them about that in the common room. The first time Hermione is in the boys dormitory is in book 2 at Christmas. She comes in to give them their gifts and tell them the polyjuice potion is ready. Ron tells her she shouldn't be in there and she says "Well, Merry Christmas to you too" or something like that. I looked it up last night.


So back to book 5.

So did I Heather. You beat me to it. Dang you are fast.

Book 5 Hermione thinks the D.A. might be a bad idea because Sirius likes it? Did anyone else find this snobbish?

No, I think she is right. Sirius is trying to live thru them.

I agree... Sirius is trying to live, vicariously, through Harry, because he's trapped inside the house, hiding out.

I think he was in part, but he also wanted to see James' son prepare for the difficulties facing him. Sirius' idea of guiding Harry into manhood would be self-defense and being proactive instead of reactive.

I agree with Ron too. Sirius spends way too much time with Kreacher.

Makes you wonder why he did not give Kreacher his wish and put his head on a plaque.

I would have put his butt on a plaque, just to dishonor him!

And I agree with Sirius. Hermione sounds like Molly.