The Silmarillion-book discussion thread

J.R.R. Tolkien Forum

This is the thread to discuss the Silmarillion. We will be taking this work a bit at a time. Shadow has been so kind as to summarize the beginning for us. Feel free to share your thoughts and questions.

This is a summary of Ainulindale or the creation of Middle Earth which the Elves call Arda.

In the beginning there was Eru, The One, whom the elves named Iluvitar. He created the Valar or Ainur. He showed them great visions of the things he had planned. He then instructed them to make a Great Music, and they did so. But there was one among them, who desired power for himself, and to bend all things to his will. He was Melkor, strongest and most knowledged of the Valar. into the Music of the Ainur he created his own harmony, and chaos immediately erupted. Iluvitar then Created a new music and it strove with Melkor's, and Melkor's music was the stronger. Then Iluvitar arose again, and created another music, wholly different from all others. it fed off of Melkor's and was superior. But there was still strife, and Iluvitar rose up a third time, and the music ceased. He then rebuked Melkor, and Melkor was ashamed, yet out of this shame came anger. Then Iluvitar showed the Ainur all that he had in store. For the music they had created had created Arda, and the Valar were amazed. Iluvitar then showed them The Children of Iluvitar. That is Elves and Men, the Firstborn and the Followers. And the Valar were further amazed at this thing Iluvitar had created for they had no part in its creation. When they had seen the Children of Iluvitar and Arda, they desire went toward that place. Chief among them was Melkor, who desired to turn all things to his will, and who was jealous of Iluvitar's creation.
The Valar, Ulmo turned his thoughts to the waters, and he was instructed in music by Iluvitar. Manwe, the chief and noblest of the Valar pondered the air. Aule, who had thought of the fabric of the earth, was given the skills of a maker, and delighted in the thing made, and gave all hoarding none. Manwe and Ulmo were allied and served Iluvitar most faithfully.
and some of the Ainur dwellt ever with Iluvitar, but others, the greatest of them took leave of him, and descended to Arda. And they labored to make the world suitable for the Children, but Melkor who was with them from the beginning, meddled in all that was done, and wrought great chaos. and when the Earth was yet young Melkor told his Brethren "This shall be my own kingdom; and I name it unto myself!"
But Manwe, Chief of the Valar rebuked his brother, and Melkor left for other regions, but ever was the Desire for the Kingdom of Arda strong in his heart.
and the Valar took upon them shape, such as they would, and they gave themselves shape as men. but at times when they were visible they were majestic and terrible to behold for their shape was as their own thought.
And Melkor saw all that was done, and he took on a form for himself, but because of his malice, his form was dark and terrible.
And Melkor descended to Arda in power greater than that of any other of the Valar, and he made war upon them. But the Valar pressed on with their shaping of Arda, and while naught was as it should have been, slowly Arda was fashioned and made ready.

if you want i'll do a brief summary of each of the Valar...

Shadow, let's start with what the Valar are for those that are not up to speed. Then the summary would be great. We can lay the foundation, then we can really enjoy all the stories with the F named people.

alright sounds like a plan. just to clarify the Valar are basically immortal invincible, and look after Middle earth. they are viewed by men as gods.

Hahahaha F named poeple so true....... and Shadow you are doing a GREAT job by the way!!!!!

~Erika~

Thanks Erika. You are doing a fine job with your posts as well.

so...uh...when are we actually going to start discussing/trying to get more poeple in here....i say we get whidden to to throw them all in here...so what if it's agianst there will...its a free country right?

Well, this forum just started, so it may take a while. We need to identify people who might be interested and possibly ask them to join us.

I am getting Tear to read the books so he can join us you guys............ you know I am in.......... We can try getting Peregr!n in here too...............

Good idea.

I say we start into the Valaquenta.

Discussion ope to the Valar and the Valier.
7 Lords of the Valar and 7 Queens of the Valar-the Valier.

VALAR
1. Manwe
2. Ulmo
3. Aule
4. Orome
5. Mandos
6. Lorine
7. Tulkas

VALIER
1. Varda
2. Yavanna
3. Nienna
4. Este
5. Vaire
6. Vana
7. Nessa

Close but there were 15 in all Fuscia............. The strongest of them all was Melkor another lord and brother to Manwe, who was pretty much expelled because of his corrupt nature.... it was his music fighting that of his brother that ultimately created Arda.............

I posted something like this is the LOTR thread....

~Erika~

I did not list him because he was Expelled. I was going along with the book and would list him under the villain. I believe that he deserves his own post to fully explain the motives of him. He does so much that he is his own category, but thank you for pointing that out.

Anyone want to start, in pairs, explaining the Valar/Valier?

I will Fuscia........ and I only put him in there since you were listing all of them and whether expelled or he was part of them.......... but I see your point .......... sorry!

Don't be sorry my friend.

Manwe and Varda

Manwe: also known as Elder King, High King of Arda, King of Arda, Lord of the Breath of Arda and Lord of the West. He is spouse to Varda. He dwells in the halls on Taniquetil, the highest mountains, and the winds and airs of Arda are under his command. Most importantly is was the music, that he created while fighting his brother Melkor, that is responsible for the creation of Arda. (Manwe means Blessed one)

Varda: also known as Eletari, Gilthoniel, The Kindler, Lady of the Stars, Queen of the Strs and Tintalle. She is the spouse of Manwe the king of Arda and the great among the Queens of the Valar. She set the stards in the sky, for which Eldar of Middle-Earth revered her, caling her by the name of Elbereth. (Varda means Sublime, as in high or lofty)


What else do you want me to mention???

Varda/Elbereth. Remember that it is to her that Frodo calls out when he is attacked on weathertop.

One interesting note on her is that of all the Valar, she is the one Morgoth hated and feared. It is said that the light of Iluvatar still lives in her face. Cool.

Great job JH.

How about doing the next two. Sadly, I am re-reading the book. When you have two kids under 5, it is hard to retain names when you are stopping kiddie fights.

Ulmo and Yavanna Kementari

Ulmo: Also known as King of the Sea or Lord of the Waters. Ulmo was in might second only to Manwe. His instrument was the horn Ulumuri. His force extends into all the rivers and streams. He is the one that counseled the othe Valar to leave the elves to roam the world freely and not take them to Aman. In the Dark Days he is the one that kept watch on the Elves and Men while the others of his order reamined in Valinor. He is famed for bringing Tudor to Gondolin and so ultimately bringing about the downfall of Morgoth in the War of Wrath. The Ringwraiths have trouble crossing running water for fear of him. (Ulmo means He who pours)

Yavanna Kementari: Also known as Giver of Fruits, Mekentari, Queen of the Earth. Called the Giver of Fruit, Yavanna was the Vala whose province was all growing things upon the earth. She was the spouse of Aule the Smith. She conceived the protectors of the forest, The Sheperds of the Trees, called Ents. She ofter returned to Middle-Earth, with Orome, husband to her sister Vana, to mourn over the losses caused by Melkor. (Yavanna means Giver of Fruits)

i'm rereading it as well fuscia...my excuse is that the multiple rereading of LOTR pushed that info out of my head...
i call the next 2 Valar
I would also like to do Melkor/Morgoth, whenever we get to him.

Aule he is the master of all substances. He is a smith and master of all crafts. he delights in making, no matter how small the thing. He was the closest of the Valar to the Noldor, and they learned much from him. Melkor is most jealous of Aule, as his crafts and powers are most like Melkor's. Melkor ever tried to mar or destroy that which Aule created.

Nienna She is one of the few Valar to dwell alone. She feels the most sorrow for all the suffering and destruction Melkor inflicted upon Arda. She weeps not for herself, and those who hear her learn pity and hope. She brings strenght to spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom.

be my guest Shadow!!!

Shadow you can have Melkor.

Goody!! *goes off to brood about Melkor*

Mandos and Vaire

Mandos His proper name is Namo. He dwell in the Halls of Mandose. He is the keeper of the Houses of the Dead. He forgets nothing, and sees all save that which Iluvitar has hidden. He is the Doomsman of the Valar, but pronounces his judgements only at Manwe's bidding.

Vaire She is the spouse of Mandos. She is known as the weaver, for she weaves all that has been in Time into her storied webs, which clothe the hall of Mandose.

Lorien and Este

Lorien His proper name is Irmo. He is brother to Namo (Mandose). He is the master of visions and dreams. His gardens in Lorien are the fairest in all the land of the Valar.

Este She is spouse to Irmo. She is the healer of hurts and weariness. She walks not by day, but sleeps on an island in the Lake of Lorellin.

Tulkas and Nessa

Tulkas He was the last of the Valar to arrive on Arda. He is the strongest of all the Valar, and he delights in wrestling and tests of strength. He is slow to anger, and ever laughs, whether in sport or in war; even in the face of Melkor he laughed as they fought. He is no councilor, but a steadfast friend. He rides no steed, for he can outrun any creature that goes on legs, and he is tireless.

Nessa She is Tulkas' spouse. she is lithe and fleetfooted. she runs as swift as an arrow. she loves to dance, and does so in Valmar on lawns of never fading green.

Orome and Vana

Orome He is a mighty lord, if he is less strong than Tulkas, it is because his wrath is far more terrible. He loves the lands of Middle-Earth, and left them unwillingly to come to Valinor. He loves horses and hounds, and trees as well. Nahar is his horses name, and his horn is called Valaroma. He ever hunted the monsters and fell beasts of Melkor.

Vana She is the spouse of Orome. She is known as the Ever-young, sister of Yavanna is she. All flowers spring at her passing, and bloom at her glance, and the birds sing at her coming.

now all the Valar have been covered.

Of their servants the Maiar, whos numbers are not known, few names stand out. i will list those names who do.
Melian she left Valinor for a time, and dwelt on middle earth with the elf King Thingol. She is the mother of Luthien the Fair.
Osse He is the vassal of ulmo. He delights in the shallows of the seas, and lakes. Melkor for a time tricked him, but Osse's spouse Uinen convinced him he was doing wrong. Uinen is the master of salt streams, and the Numenoreans held her in reverence greater than the Valar, for she long held them in her protection.

Olorin He is the wisest of the Maiar, and he dwelt in Lorien, but he would walk often among the elves as one of them, and he put wise promptings in their hearts. but he is not mentioned in the Silmarillion. His time was long ages later, when he was a friend of the Children of Iluvitar, and those who listened to him awoke from despair and darkness. He was known by many names during his time on Middle earth. Mithrandir he was to the elves, the Grey-Pilgrim, and to men he was Gandalf.

SauronHis name means Lord of Abomination. He was known to the Elves as Gorthaur the Cruel. He was drawn to Melkor in the days of his greatness, and stayed with him in his descent into darkness. He was Melkor's most trusted and powerful servant. He is considered only less evil because he served another longer than he served himself. in ages after Melkor's defeat, Sauron arose as a shadow of his former master and as a ghost of his malice. He walked the same ruinous path into the Void.

Valraukar Their hearts are of fire, and they are robed in shadow. they carry whips of flame, and terror goes before them. they are known as Balrogs, demons of terror. the greatest of them was Gothmog, Lord of the Balrogs. He met his end during the Sack of Gondolin.

Dwarves. They were made by Aule in the darkness of Middle-earth. Elves and men were not yet in the world, and Aule desired to created learners that he could teach his craft. Because Melkor was so powerful, Aule made the dwarves strong and unyielding. They were made in secret. At first he made only seven. They were called the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves.

and the Elves and Dwarves would ever by at odds with eachother. so says Iluvitar. And the Ents were made because Yavanna feared what the dwarves might do to the trees, and so she gave them guardians, or shepherds.

Cool Shadow. Well told.

The Dwarves were set in sleep "in darkness under stone" until the Firstborn were awakened by Iluvitar.

Dwarves are "stone-hard, stubborn, fast in friendship and in enmity, and they suffer toil and hunger and hurt of body more hardily than all other speaking peoples, and they live long, far beyond the span of Men, yet not forever."

we have a thread up and running to discuss the different type of elves. i have made a summary of the chapter Of the Coming of the Elves for your pleasure and usage. go here http://www.inreview.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14968&forumid=363

*runs in* hey im here at last! what have i missed?!?!?!?!

Read this thread, then the thread on the elves and you are caught up. Take a breath.

*takes a breath* *reads thread* *goes off to read the elves thread*

Lets' all try to get through the taking of the Silmarils, and we can start talking about it on Monday. Sound O.K.?

all i can say is: YES!! that and: about time! good idea...i'm past that..but thats ok.

Well I had been reading that and ROTK at the same time......but since I finished ROTK yesterday.......... I can now devote all my time to the Silmarillion............. see you all here monday then..........

I have had a very busy week. I just wanted to give time for Peregrin to catch up.

Monday it is...yes...and mondays a holiday...all my time will now be devoted to this forum...as if that wasn't already the case...stupid school is depriving me of time on here....

Great. That means I had better get reading.

yes i suppose you had better...knowing what your going to be discussing would be a good thing i think.

I finally have the Simarillion! And i will not lose this copy! It is in my drawer waiting to be read, and read it i will!

good..so will you be in here on Monday?

definitely!

bwahah...in but a single weekend i have finished Quenta Silmarillion...that doesn't include the stuff on numenor and the rings of power though....

Where have you read up to?

i've finished all the stuff pertaining to the Silmarils. i have not read the stuff on Numenor or "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" yet.

I just finished the tale of Eol, his wife and his sone Maeglin.

How about if we start with the comming of the Elves. We know what types of elves there were from the other thread, but the most significant thing I found, was the Melkor instilled a fear and distrust of the Valar from the start.

yeah...and this caused some of the elves not to go to Valinor...

He was good at causing trouble.

Shadow, do you want to do a brief run down of Thingol and Melian? Was she the only Maia to marry an elf?

Melian was the only Maia to marry an elf. She used her power to protect Thingol's land until he was slain by dwarves. She was the mother of Luthien. Luthien was the mother of Dior. his only surviving daughter was Elwing, who married Earendil the Mariner, who brought the plight of The elves and Men to the Valars attention.

Well done.

Feanor was the son of Finwe and Miriel. Miriel put all of herself into bearing of Feanor. She soon departed to Lorien. Her spirit left her body there.

Feanor-tall, fair of face "eyes piercingly bright and his hair ravendark". Of all the Noldor he was the most subtle in mind, the most skilled with his hands. He was also a powerful speaker.

Allright...so as to limit confusion, here are the seven sons of Feanor. Meadhros, Maglor, Curufin, Caranthir, Celegorm, Amrod, Amras.

Feanor's half brothers are: Fingolfin and Finarfin.

We should also mention that Feanor had a fiery spirit. His half brothers were milder in temperament.

The sons of Fingolfin are: Fingon, Turgon, and a sister they had, Aradhel the white.

The sons of Finarfin are: Finrod, Orodeth, Angrod, and Aegnor. Their sister was Galadriel.

Feanor crafted the three Silmarils. They were jewels that captured the light of the two trees of Valinor.

The 2 trees were made to light Valinor. they were made by Yavanna Kemantari. The first tree to grow was Telperion, whose leaves were of silver. the other was Laurelin, and it bore flowers of gold.

Is it me, or where all the Elf Lords very arrogant?

well...some of them were sometimes...and some of them were all of the time...i think the really arrogant ones were Curufin, Caranthir, and Celegorm. the others were arrogant at times...but they had good intentions...especially finrod.

Yes but Feanor had the mother of all egos.

yes...so i suppose its a good thing he got killed..otherwise he would have tried to take all the land as his...greedy little elf that he was...

What made Feanor so effective as a leader?

well lets see now. he was an excellent speaker, subtle of mind. he was also able to make you question things you wouldn't normally think about, thus bringing you to his side of thinking.

I wonder if his good looks helped.

well when you consider how good most elves looked...i kinda doubt it. i think they wouldn't let their opinions be swayed by such a thing as looks, generally speaking.

Well, since it is just a few of us, we can get on with talking about the book.

So Feanor made the Silmarils. Morgoth coveted them, eventually killed Feanors father Finwe, and stole the jewls. Feanor gets mad, swears an oath to get them back, and his fellow elves that swear to it are bound by the oath. The Valar just sit back with heavy hearts and watch. Am I remembering correctly?

yes you are. the only ones who swore the oath were Feanor and his 7 sons.

So Melkor gets in league with Ungoliath or whatever her name was kill the trees and high tail it out of Valinor. Shadow, any thoughts or comments on the death of Feanor?

ungoliant is how you spell it.

i found it humerous how he died...silly feanor...i think he got what he deserved.

Yes that cocky little elf did ask for it so to speak.

what the Ring was to people in LOTR the Silmarils were to the people of the Silmarillion.

You will not believe this....i have lost my copy of the Silmarillion AGAIN!
That confirms it....books do have legs
I will be back and commenting on it as soon as i find it!

"that confirms it...books do have legs"
that or you're just forgetfull
good luck on finding it!

Hmm, book gone again. My book is also missing. So what ever did happen to Morgoth? Maybe he is behind it.

he got his feet hewn from beneath him, his Iron Crown was beaten into a collar, he was chained and thrown through the gates of the walls of the Outer Dark. thats what happens to him in the end.

O.k. that does sound familiar. I just am very mad that I lost the book. I never do that.

man...whats up with people and losing the Silmarillion...well as long as i'm in Angband i'll ask Morgoth if he knows whats going on *asks him* oh sorry, he says he knows nothing about it and swears he isn't lying. he said if you don't believe him you'll be seeing a friend of his named..Sauron...*shudders*

I guess I had better hide.

I am so sad that this thread died before I finished the book.

I just found my book and am reading it. Bring the discussion back! I am ready.

I too lost my copy. I found it a couple of weeks ago when I did the taxes.

Anyhow, this thread is dead dead dead and I missed all the action.

To tell you the truth, all the names glaze my eyes over and I can't retain them.
When I run into someone I know, like Elrond, I perk up and pay more attention.

I am a feeb on some of this stuff, I have only read chapter one and parts of "of the rings of power and the third age".

I have some questions:

The first chapter sounds like the history of God. The names are changed but I see Illuvatar/Eru as God. Manwe as Micheal the Arch Angel. Ulmo as Gabriel. And Melkor as Lucifer/Satan.
Am I off base to think this, or is this what Tolkien was shooting for?

It calls Elrond, Elrond Half elven. Is that his last name, or is he only half an elf?

It says Sauron the Maia. Whats a Maia? Is Sauron human? It said he did some bad stuff and repented, but then couldn't take the humiliation of what Manwe was gonna do to him for punishment, so he went back and became evil again.

whatever happened to the 3 elf rings, Narya, Nenya and Vilya? It says that they were given into the hands of the wise and concealed. They ever get found and used again?

What happened to all the rings after the one ring was destroyed. Did they all lose their powers or did they still work?

Cool!

Whidden, I had no idea you were a Tolkien fan, welcome to our forum!

Half elven wasn't Elrond's last name. He comes from a marriage between Man and Elf. He and his brother, Elros, were given the choice to which race they would belong. Elrond chose elves and Elros chose men. Elros was the first King on Numenor, Aragorn's ancestors.

The Maiar are servants of the Valar (the gods). Sauron is a Maia, once the servant of Morgoth (the "bad" god). They are kind of like angels if you want to compare it to Christianity. The Valar are more like the gods of ancient mythology. Tolkien being a Catholic was heavily influenced by his religion, but did not want it to be compared to his story.

The wizards (Istari) are Maiar too. So that makes Gandalf a Maia.

Balrogs are Maiar. They were originally spirits of fire, but Morgoth corrupted them into his evil.

The Three rings went to Elrond, Galadriel, and Cirdan. I don't remember which one went to who. Cirdan gave his to Gandalf. They were kept hidden, but when the One Ring was destroyed, their power faded. Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf sailed to Valinor with the rings at the end of Return of the King.

If the names make your eyes glaze over (like me) it might help to refer to the glossary at the back of the book regularly. The names aren't really important anyway. If the person is important to the story, their name will be mentioned often enough for you remember. Honestly, I spent so much time sorting through the names and when I finally finished the book I realized how unnecessary it was. And if you have any questions you have us, or try the Encyclopedia of Arda.

www.glyphweb.com/arda is the address.

www.councilofelrond.com is a great resource too.

thanks Heather, I read all the books in high school, then a couple of more times in my 20's.

I lose a lot of it with time, so I can read the books over and have it be interesting again. My mom got me the Sim Book years ago and I tried to read it, but got bogged down.


So if Aragorn and Elrond are semi-related, Aragorn married his super distant relative?

Were there any other Maia besides Gandalf, Sauron and Sauramon?

Yeah, Aragorn and Arwen are very very distantly related. Since they are mortals there were many generations between Elros and Aragorn. Arwen is like 2000 years old. One generation between her and Elrond.

There are countless Maiar. There are five Istari(wizards) alone. Nathan might be able to explain this better, but I am going to give it a shot. Each Maiar is connected to one of the Valar. There are 14 Valar + Morgoth. Each Vala has maia. Gandalf is connected with Varda and Manwe. Saruman is connected with Aule, so is Sauron. Melian is connected with Vana and Este.

I didn't know you were so knowledgable about Tolkien Heather...I'm sure everyone appreciates the info, as do I

Nathan and Tiger are the masters though.

AND DON'T YOU FORGET IT!
nah i'm just kidding. i find that as much as i know, there is so much left to find out. the fact that most of the questions that are asked stump me in the trivia sections are proof of that.
and yes, heather you are right in you description of the maia serving a certain vala.

I read a little more today and it sounded like even thought the 3 rings given to the elves were not used by them, they somehow gave power to their kingdoms and made them strong.

After the one Ring was destroyed, this was part of the reason that they had to diminish and go west.

It's a detailed book though, I could have read it wrong.

Does it go into any detail about the other Maia?

And on the book cover, there is a pic of a guy throwing a glowing thing into the ocean. Who is that guy and why is he doing it?

I really do need to read the book through, so I can keep up. I will make an effort.

The guy on the cover is probably Earendil, Elrond's father. His wife, Elwing was holding a silmaril when she threw herself into the sea. My book doesn't have that cover so I don't know for sure.

Not too much is said about the Maiar in The Silmarillion. There are other books by Tolkien that go into more detail. I haven't gotten to those yet. And as for the 3 rings, Lord of the Rings and the end of Silmarillion explain them.

The Silmarillion talks mostly about Melian the Maia and her marriage to Thingol.

The Silmaril are the 3 gems that Feanor made. They hold the light of Valinor.

I'm still only on my second read of Silmarillion, Whidden, so I can't give you a conclusive answer to what the picture on your cover is depicting.

After seeing it though, I am going to say that it was not Elwing. She didn't throw the Silmaril into the sea, she threw herself in the sea to be with Earendil, clutching one of the silmarils, and she wasn't in human form when she did. I think she took the shape of a bird. I don't really remember the details though.....

After some research I am thinking the man on the cover is probably Maglor, one of Feanor's sons. Feanor created the Silmarils. He threw one of the silmarils into the sea.

Feanor didn't throw the silmaril, Maglor threw one into the sea, Meadhros threw his (along with himself) into a volcanic crack, and Elwing has the other.

I re-read chapter one last night, during Survivor commercials. It was very good. Had forgotten a lot of it.

Moving on to chapter two tonight.

Floating around this forum somewhere are some summaries of the more boring stuff. If chapter one is about them singing and creating middle-earth, I did a summary on that, and one on the coming of the elves as well. There is also a whole thing on each of the Vala. Most of it is in this thread I think, it just requires some (more) reading.
Anyway, thanks for coming and resurrecting this dead thread Whidden!

I'm learning from your questions, so keep asking. I hope I am not confusing you. I'm still trying to figure it out myself.

Hi

Hoping someone can provide as clear a description of the Narya ring as possible. I believe that the Simarillion had the most description throughout multiple references to the ring. However we temporarily misplaced our copy somewhere in the house.

So we're grateful for any help that y'all can provide.

Thanks in advance!
Gangirl

Narya-The Ring of Fire or the Red Ring. This is one of the three Elven rings. The other two are Nenya, the ring of water or Ring of Adamant; and Vilya, the ring of air or the Ring of Sapphire.

Narya was forged by Celebrimbor, and was never touched nor sullied by Sauron. Narya along with Vilya were given to Gil-Galad. Nenya was gifted to Galadriel of Lorien. Before Gil-Galad's march to the East in the beginning of the Last Alliance, he gave Narya to to Cirdain the Shipwright. Vilya was eventually given to Elrond. When the Wizards arrived from the west, Cirdain realized the importance and power of Gandalf, and gave him Narya, to help him in his journeys.

And welcome to INReview Gangirl!

Hi Shadow Stalker

Thanks for replying.

Alas, I was hoping for a clearer description of the ring itself, that is, of the band, the setting, etc.

Thought it was in the book somewhere but maybe I'm going crazy. No comments from the peanut gallery.

Gangirl

Gangirl, you are the 3rd or 4th person in this thread that has misplaced the book.

These books must have some kind of spell on them. They go and hide themselves, so we can't read them.

I found mine, after forever, but I got bogged down in chapter two again.

I think I am the only one in this thread that hasn't lost their Silm book.

Heather, hit me with some tough-love and make my sorry butt read the rest of it.

I can't get through chapter two. Threaten me with physical harm or something.

The first 3 chapters are the hardest. Once you get through them, you'll be fine. Now get cracking!
'

http://pages.prodigy.net/indianahawkeye/newpage30/11.gif You don't have to be so mean about it!!!

READ IT WHIDDEN!!! NOW!!!! I have yet to lose my copy of the Sil.

I think the tough love is getting to me.


***Whiddens dust off copy and starts again on chapter two ***