Why Aren't Iraqi Citizens Dancing In The Streets? - Post-9/11 Era

Why Aren't Iraqi Citizens Dancing In The Streets?

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Posted by: Search4Truth

Why US getting a wary welcome
As US forces fight in southern Iraq, the shifting loyalties of civilians could be key.
By Peter Ford | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
AMMAN, JORDAN – Through the fog of war in Iraq, one conclusion is emerging. The "rose petal and rice" scenario, under which Washington optimists envisaged a warm and immediate welcome for US and British troops, was mistaken.

Reporters with combat troops have recounted scenes of happy Iraqi civilians fraternizing with the soldiers. But they have also broadcast TV pictures of sullen groups of men and neutral bystanders. And paramilitary Iraqi "fedayeen," as well as regular troops, are putting up considerable resistance.
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Whether ordinary Iraqis turn out to be grateful for liberation or resentful at invasion will be crucial both to the success of the military campaign now under way, and to longer- term American plans for the country they hope to capture. But it may be too early to draw conclusions about which sentiment - patriotic pride, fear, or hatred of President Hussein - runs deepest in Iraqi hearts.

"You cannot expect ordinary Iraqi people who have lived for years under the boot of Saddam, and who have ... before been let down, I am afraid, by allied forces, to be confident they are able to come out and express their views until they are sure that Saddam's regime has gone," British Prime Minister Tony Blair said Tuesday, remarking on the lack of Stars and Stripes-waving crowds in Umm Qasr.

Fighting for hearts and minds

"The fear factor is major," agrees Richard Murphy, a former US assistant secretary of State for the Near East who now works at the Council on Foreign Relations. "But I wonder whether ... the desire to to defend God and country by shooting up the invaders has more appeal than we have given it credit for."

Wednesday, US soldiers escorted a seven-truck convoy of Kuwaiti-donated food and water into Umm Qasr, in the sort of gesture expected to win hearts and minds among a war-stricken population. A British Navy ship was expected to dock in Umm Qasr's deepwater port on Thursday, bringing the first seaborne aid to Iraq.

US military commanders could also find succor in reports of a popular uprising against Hussein's regime that British intelligence suggested had broken out in the southern city of Basra on Tuesday. But an Al Jazeera TV correspondent in the city reported no sign of a rebellion Wednesday.

Shiite Muslims who rose up in revolt in the wake of the 1991 Gulf War were brutally repressed by government forces when coalition troops stood aside after President Bush encouraged Iraqis to "take matters into their own hands."

That experience, seen as a betrayal, "has left deep scars" on local residents, says Cliff Beal, editor of Jane's Defence Weekly.

Both in southern Iraq and elsewhere, "there will be a strong element of prudence among a large part of the population," predicts Charles Tripp, a historian of Iraq at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London.

"If you combine the feeling among much of the opposition that this is an American and British show with the understandable caution of people after 35 years of Baathist dictatorship - these are huge inhibitors," Dr. Tripp adds.

That is especially true when even towns that the allied troops claim to have secured turn out to have been seeded with irregular fedayeen militiamen, who are beginning to fight a guerrilla war, often dressed in civilian clothes.

This will complicate the military campaign, predicts Mr. Beal. "If you don't know who's who, if you cannot trust the civilian population, you have to devote more resources to keeping an eye on them."

The risks could also sour relations between civilians and invading troops, which Washington and London are eager to keep friendly. "If your mate has just been shot by someone looking very like the man coming down the road, you are not likely to give him a courteous reception," Tripp points out.

The picture would be further muddied should Iraqi tribesmen, many of whom have been armed by the government, join the battle. Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf said Wednesday that "tens of thousands" of such tribesmen had turned back a US military column south of Najaf.

Should fedayeen and other Iraqi troops continue to hole up in towns and cities, as they are expected to do, US and British forces - anxious to avoid civilian casualties so as not to underline their desired image as liberators - will face a cruel dilemma.

"I don't envy a commander having to decide whether to ratchet up firepower," says Beal. "If you don't apply firepower effectively, you risk not accomplishing your objectives and increasing the danger to your own troops. And a commander's No. 1 responsibility is to his objectives and his men."

If allied forces feel obliged to launch all-out offensives against cities such as Baghdad, ordinary Iraqis will simply keep their heads down, says Tripp. "I don't think they will rise up unless an [Iraqi] officer shows the lead. Why risk your life now if the allies are there in such force?"

At the same time, those Iraqis putting up resistance are presumably fueling their morale with Hussein's confident televised addresses, giving the sense that he and his government are still in control. (Iraqi TV came back on the air Wednesday morning, several hours after its transmission tower in Baghdad had been bombed.)

"There is a nationalistic element underlying this," says Beal. "Some of these men are fighting for their hometowns, and government propaganda says the Americans are coming to take their homes and dishonor their women."

Though this applies to members of the ruling Baath party, the militia and the army, most Iraqis are expected to judge the incoming forces by their experiences during and after the fighting.

'Suspicions are high'

"A significant number" of Iraqis "expressed the view that if ... change required an American attack, they would support it," found a recent report by the International Crisis Group think tank in Brussels, based on extensive interviews with ordinary people in Iraq last October.

However, "if the war proved to be bloody or protracted, or if Iraq lacked sufficient assistance afterwards, the support in question may well not be very long sustained," it warned.

This "underlines the need for us to be absolutely committed to what we have talked about, getting an interim Iraqi administration launched as soon as possible and building to a constituent assembly," says Mr. Murphy. "There must be no question who is running Iraq."

That will be difficult, he warns, because "suspicions are high, and we can easily give the impression that we are there to stay."

If that happens, predicts Said Aburish, a Palestinian author who has written a biography of Hussein, "there will be two months of love and affection, and then people will turn around and ask 'What are you doing here?' "

The current uncertainties over Iraqi citizens' response to the invasion "may all blow away like a bad dream," says Murphy.

"But," he adds, "I am not sure that we have paid enough attention to the fact that there is nationalist sentiment that has to be respected."

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Posted by: frenchfries

How could it be else?
They will sure be happy to get rid of Saddam, but they won't forget how the embargo affected them.They won't welcome people who starved them !!! Furthermore, they are certainly brainwashed too...

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Posted by: Retsep

People aren't dancing in the streets because the last time they did and Saddam slaughtered them for it. Once he is captured or killed they will come out...but they are a bit leary this time around (with good reason). They thought their horror was over in 1991...they were wrong and some paid dearly for it.

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Posted by: nowar

quote:
Originally posted by Retsep
People aren't dancing in the streets because the last time they did and Saddam slaughtered them for it. Once he is captured or killed they will come out...but they are a bit leary this time around (with good reason). They thought their horror was over in 1991...they were wrong and some paid dearly for it.


... because Bush father forgot his promise to Shiite people ......
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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by Retsep
People aren't dancing in the streets because the last time they did and Saddam slaughtered them for it. Once he is captured or killed they will come out...but they are a bit leary this time around (with good reason). They thought their horror was over in 1991...they were wrong and some paid dearly for it.



Not only did Bush forget his promise to the Shiite people, he also betrayed the world. He should have taken Saddam at the time of the first War.

He used the classic ruse of offering to help people, gained his immediate objectives...deserted his friends and went back home. It's like asking someone to jump off a roof with a promise that you'll catch them and then looking the other way when they do.

It is because Bush betrayed them that these people died...if we talk about responsibility, I think Bush should be tried as a war criminal. I agree that Saddam is a liar and a murderer...but if you comapre him with the US administration and how they have consistently betrayed their friends, I would much rather trsut Saddam than Bush.
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Posted by: Retsep

Well you go ahead and trust Saddam...and if you are that gullible I have a bridge in Brookyn for sale too.

Was Bush Sr.'s betrayal of the Shiites and Kurds unacceptable...yes. Then I guess it's a good thing that someone's going to set those wrongs right...that someone is his son.

Also, the US doesn't "consistently betrayed their friends" I fail to see how you can point to one example and make a generalization. Did we leave them out to dry? Absoluetely. But it wasn't as if the Kurds were some great ally of ours. That being said, I would agree that it was a crummy thing to do...and yes we should have gotten rid of Saddam in 1991.

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Posted by: USA1

GuyFromPakistan,

Please tell us about the Pakastani Schools of Jihad.
We are told in the U.S. that there are hundreds of these schools that have taught millions of Pakastani and Arab students over the last 10 years to hate and kill all Americans or non-Mulsilms.
Is this true?
You see? We get information too, much like you. Some of it we believe and some of it we do not but, as you know, not all is true.
Please think with your heart and not let everything you read or hear brainwash you into hating every people because they are different or have other religious views. Everyone, including you, want and deserve a certain amount of freedom and rights.

There is only one God with many children. Children like Christians, Muslim, and Jewish and.......

Peace

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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by USA1
GuyFromPakistan,

Please tell us about the Pakastani Schools of Jihad.
We are told in the U.S. that there are hundreds of these schools that have taught millions of Pakastani and Arab students over the last 10 years to hate and kill all Americans or non-Mulsilms.
Is this true?
You see? We get information too, much like you. Some of it we believe and some of it we do not but, as you know, not all is true.
Please think with your heart and not let everything you read or hear brainwash you into hating every people because they are different or have other religious views. Everyone, including you, want and deserve a certain amount of freedom and rights.

There is only one God with many children. Children like Christians, Muslim, and Jewish and.......

Peace


Dear USA1

Let me tell you a couple of things about the so called Pakistani schools of Jihad. And also about Jihad, because I am pretty sure you have no idea what you are talking about, which is not unexpected.

Jihad is not holy war. Jihad is not even necessarily the use of force. Frankly speaking, if you take the dictionary meaning of Jihad, then what the US claims to be doing in Iraq would be Jihad.

Jihad has it's basis in the Islamic concept of Fairness. It literally means to struggle against unfairness. Please note that the word stuggle is a defense term, not a term of aggression. The concept is that if you see someone dealing with someone else in an unfair way, it is your duty, as a Muslim to try to stop that. Be it your neighbour or a stranger...be the perpetrator a soldier or a king. Ir is your duty as a human being to protect the weak. You can try to stop this by reasoning...if he/she doesn't understand reasoning, you can report to the authorities, if that is not possible, you have to use your own means...if you are not strong enough, you have to speak out against it...if you fear for your life, do at least something to stop the injustice. THAT is Jiahd. It's not a holy war and it's not aimed at non-muslims.

Actually it was primarily FOR non-muslims. the first instances of Jihad in the Muslim history are of when wealthy citizens of the first Muslim state were found mistreating their slaves and a group of merchants collected money together to buy and free the Slaves. THAT is Jihad. You make it sound like a dirty word.

The concept of Jihad is taught to you in your very early childhood. I learnt it in third grade. I am not very religious...you could even say I am agnostic...but I strongly believe in this beautiful concept of welfare...and I would do Jihad everytime I see some being unfair to someone else.

And let me also explain that I do not believe eveything I read or hear...I do not hate americans...heck I like americans...they are hard working people with an honest outlook on life...which is more than what I can say for most Arabs...

I am taking the time and spending this energy writing here for the very same reasons as yours...to preserve the notion of freedom...and human rights...can you at least consider looking at things from another person's point of view?
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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by Retsep


Also, the US doesn't "consistently betrayed their friends" I fail to see how you can point to one example and make a generalization. Did we leave them out to dry? Absoluetely. But it wasn't as if the Kurds were some great ally of ours. That being said, I would agree that it was a crummy thing to do...and yes we should have gotten rid of Saddam in 1991.



I am not generalizing on an isolated instance. Take a lok around the world. Notice the main crisis areas?
Let's make a list.
Afghanistan: The people you guys have recently defeated are the same people you guys espoused and trained during the cold war. I know because it's my country who was paid the money and who distributed it to the war effort against Russia.

Pakistan: Before 1965 Pakistan relied exclusively on USA for it's defensive munitions. The reasons. we didn't want to go with Russia because they weren't a democracy. In 1965 India landed it's forces in Dhakka, then part of Pakistan, now a separate country named Bangladesh. America stopped it's supplies of munitions to Pakistan during the war. Outcome? We lost half of our country.

1991: USA slaps sanctions on Pakistan following the fall of Russia. Remember that our governments have consistently been friendly and supportive of USA ever since Pakistan's creation in 1947. Despite everything...as again in the Afghan war...

Should I count on? There are too many instances...

The way you guys are treating France now is another example...

If you want I can look up a list of all such instances...I know it will make interesting reading for you...because being an American you don't go beoyond CNN...and CNN is the best kept secret in the world...I keep getting astonished at how successfully your nation's press keeps you in a cloud of ignorance while you think you know everything...well you don't...you will need to go beyond your backyard to see what the world reality is like...
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Posted by: Rambo

quote:
He should have taken Saddam at the time of the first War.


Absolutely.

The problem was due to too many liberal minds having an influence on the situation.

BLH's are essentially killers in the long run. That is the end result of their deeds, more deaths.
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Posted by: USA1

GuyFromPakistan

I detect a lot of resentment in your reply. Contrary to your belief, we have many educated individuals here and we take the media and television as free speach only. Free speach means you can say antyhing you want. It doesn't make it true OR believable.
We don't view our media as Gospel as you say. However, images that are displayed speak to us more in a believable way.

Thank you for your view and description on your belief of what Jihad is. I do think, as in other religions and preachings that people will screw the preachings to make it FIT their own version. I.e. Alqueda. We know everyone is not like that and I am happy to see you are not one of those.

I guess what is hard to understand is that if Jihad is a defense, why don't people who are suffering from the murderous routines of a govenment stand up and Jihad against them to resolve the issues against their own rights? There are millions of people in Iraq who are Muslim and only a small number in the government who are purpetrating the actions against their civilians.

Why do they put up with it? Why would they revolt against the very people who want to help them out of the situation?
It seems that this religious belief is also preventing them from helping themselves?

France will stand on what ever side of the fence they want. They change with the wind and we have knwn this for years. It is nothing new. Their goals revolve around oil contracts that may get upset because of a new regime. They fear that the world will hear that they and Russia are friends with Saddam and not Iraqi interests.

Think of the future and not the past. There are new leaders and new thinkers who view human rights as a priority to survival.

When a new Irqaq emerges and they become free of fear and murder they can focus on a better life for all. It has to be this way.

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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by USA1
GuyFromPakistan

I detect a lot of resentment in your reply. Contrary to your belief, we have many educated individuals here and we take the media and television as free speach only. Free speach means you can say antyhing you want. It doesn't make it true OR believable.
We don't view our media as Gospel as you say. However, images that are displayed speak to us more in a believable way.

Thank you for your view and description on your belief of what Jihad is. I do think, as in other religions and preachings that people will screw the preachings to make it FIT their own version. I.e. Alqueda. We know everyone is not like that and I am happy to see you are not one of those.

I guess what is hard to understand is that if Jihad is a defense, why don't people who are suffering from the murderous routines of a govenment stand up and Jihad against them to resolve the issues against their own rights? There are millions of people in Iraq who are Muslim and only a small number in the government who are purpetrating the actions against their civilians.

Why do they put up with it? Why would they revolt against the very people who want to help them out of the situation?
It seems that this religious belief is also preventing them from helping themselves?

France will stand on what ever side of the fence they want. They change with the wind and we have knwn this for years. It is nothing new. Their goals revolve around oil contracts that may get upset because of a new regime. They fear that the world will hear that they and Russia are friends with Saddam and not Iraqi interests.

Think of the future and not the past. There are new leaders and new thinkers who view human rights as a priority to survival.

When a new Irqaq emerges and they become free of fear and murder they can focus on a better life for all. It has to be this way.


USA1

You are right...I am resentful. I was not back in 1991 when the US marched into Kuwait to free it...I looked at your soldiers as heros...and then for 12 years I saw images of disfigured children and stillborn babies and kids dying because of the sanctions. And I grew up.

September eleven. An indian friend who lives in Australia called me up and told me there had been some kind of an attack on the the world trade center...
We turned on the television and watched it on CNN (yes we have CNN in Pakistan). I still remember the image of a person jumping from one of the windows...my mother walked out of the room crying...she couldn't watch anymore...I remember telling my US friends that if I could lay my hands on whoever was responsible I'd personally execute that person...
And now you guys saunter into Iraq and basically blow it back to the cave period?
Yes I am resentful!
And so are about 800 million other muslims in the world...what did you expect?
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Posted by: USA1

So this is about religion. Muslims do hate Americans. Hmmm.
You say 800 million Muslims not 800 million people.

We are not blowing Iraq back to the cave period. Although we could, we chose not to. That is not the goal and you know it.

Quit complaining and go fight for what you believe. Go to Iraq and pull together with them and find a peacful solution.

It sounds to me that all the Middle East wants is to be left alone.
I personally can deal with that. But, they also want our money.

What if the U.S. pulled completely out of the Middle East.
What if we left Turkey, Afganastan, Kuwait and Saudi and disbanded every military base? What if we said, "Fine, let them solve their problems on their own because they obviously don't want our help".
I can live with that too. But don't ask for help and then turn you back. And don't come to this country to force your views on the Americans either.

Would that stop the American hatred? No. Because that isn't enough. They still want money and support from the U.S.

Keep selling the oil to Russia and France and we will find other sources for fuel. There are plenty of countries willing to sell it and we are willing to buy it.

Personally, I would like nothing more that to disband the whole region and let them solve their own problems using religion as their basis or what ever it is they use to protect thier rights.

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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by USA1
So this is about religion. Muslims do hate Americans. Hmmm.
You say 800 million Muslims not 800 million people.

We are not blowing Iraq back to the cave period. Although we could, we chose not to. That is not the goal and you know it.

Quit complaining and go fight for what you believe. Go to Iraq and pull together with them and find a peacful solution.

It sounds to me that all the Middle East wants is to be left alone.
I personally can deal with that. But, they also want our money.

What if the U.S. pulled completely out of the Middle East.
What if we left Turkey, Afganastan, Kuwait and Saudi and disbanded every military base? What if we said, "Fine, let them solve their problems on their own because they obviously don't want our help".
I can live with that too. But don't ask for help and then turn you back. And don't come to this country to force your views on the Americans either.

Would that stop the American hatred? No. Because that isn't enough. They still want money and support from the U.S.

Keep selling the oil to Russia and France and we will find other sources for fuel. There are plenty of countries willing to sell it and we are willing to buy it.

Personally, I would like nothing more that to disband the whole region and let them solve their own problems using religion as their basis or what ever it is they use to protect thier rights.


USA1

I say Muslims because you are targetting Muslims right now...let me put it this way...take a look around you...see the flash points?

Afghanistan
Palistine
Iraq

which group is getting pounded by US or US aided forced? muslims...duh!
is it so difficult to see?

I do not believe I tried to force my opinions on you...you have the right to differ...I respect that...

and I am not speaking for those governments in the Arab block who want US money...please tell the beggers to go away...

and I have said it before but let me say it again...I don't hate americans...I don't hate any people in the world...I would actually try to explain your side to those who do hate you...if I had a strong enough argument...

about your offer to disband the region...I find it a bit on the megalomaniac side...that is the problem...you think you can disband regions...rearrange governments...change boundries...without inciting resentment? you shouldn't be this naive...

about helping the arab world...america is not helping...it's basically mopping up after it's own deeds...there's a solid long term plan about this whole thing...you know the word hegemony?
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Posted by: USA1

But pulling out would allow you to eventually all get back to normal. What ever normal is.

Do you actually believe that the US was never ASKED for help by those countries? Do think we forced ourselves on them and opened up military base so we could attack Muslims?

Each country has the right to kick out anyone and that includes or military bases. Why don't they?

Because they fear their neighbors and can't protect themselves.
Talking does not deter and they know it.

Our military doesn't pump oil to the U.S. They have a specific mission.

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Posted by: NothingSacred

I'm a Christian, and I hate one particular American...Bush!

Anybody Else in 2004!

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Posted by: Rambo

quote:
I'm a Christian, and I hate...


That sounds like quite the oxymoron.

Looks like SomethingScared has SomethingBackwards.
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Posted by: robert135

BTW, papa bush stopped the first war without removing Sadam at the urging of the UN.

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Posted by: arkarkka

If the US had been in embargo for 12 years mainly because of Iraq, if your country was attacked by people of different religion, wich you would concider hostile to you, if your capital was under threat of becoming under siege and blown to pieces, if you were patriotic and loved your country more than its leader, would you dance on the streets when the iraqis were coming closer to Washington. Ask yourself this.

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Posted by: USA1

This is NOT about Religion although, it just so happens that the Muslim Fundamentalists are the most distrubed and psycotic faction on the face of the earth. If it was Christian Fundamentalists threatening me and my family, I wouldn't hestitate there either.

This is also not about a specific country. It is about threat of death. Muslim Fundamentists spreading their plague throughout the world. Like them, we will fight to the death.

Get off the Religious and oil kick. This is about death. personally anyone will is willing to kill me or my family is MY enemy. I will kill them first but, I will give them about 1 milli-second to give up first.

Those who attack MY country or support attacks on MY country are MY enemy.

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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by USA1
This is NOT about Religion although, it just so happens that the Muslim Fundamentalists are the most distrubed and psycotic faction on the face of the earth. If it was Christian Fundamentalists threatening me and my family, I wouldn't hestitate there either.

This is also not about a specific country. It is about threat of death. Muslim Fundamentists spreading their plague throughout the world. Like them, we will fight to the death.

Get off the Religious and oil kick. This is about death. personally anyone will is willing to kill me or my family is MY enemy. I will kill them first but, I will give them about 1 milli-second to give up first.

Those who attack MY country or support attacks on MY country are MY enemy.


Well in that case I'd say Bush should be on top of your list of personal enemies
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Posted by: Rambo

quote:
Those who attack MY country or support attacks on MY country are MY enemy.


Well said.


quote:
Well in that case I'd say Bush should be on top of your list of personal enemies


Terribly said.

Telling an American to regard their President as the enemy because some clown from Pakistan has a stick up his butt concerning Bush?

Jesus Holy Moly.
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Posted by: GuyFromPakistan

quote:
Originally posted by Rambo


Well said.




Terribly said.

Telling an American to regard their President as the enemy because some clown from Pakistan has a stick up his butt concerning Bush?

Jesus Holy Moly.



You could argue the same for Saddam...
Where'd you get your manners by the way...is it the general US standard?
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Posted by: Hitman

quote:
Originally posted by frenchfries
How could it be else?
They will sure be happy to get rid of Saddam, but they won't forget how the embargo affected them.They won't welcome people who starved them !!! Furthermore, they are certainly brainwashed too...



That was the UN that was all in on that one dude not just the US
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