Maiar

Lord of the Rings Trilogy Forum

What does it mean to be Maiar, like Gandalf?

Gandalf and all the wizards are Maiar, but there are many other Maiar except them. They're some sort of minor gods. Not as powerful as the Valars, and created after them. Sauron is a Maia, too, while his teacher, Morgoth, was a fallen Valar.

Thank you. I never quite knew what Sauron was. I know Saruman was a wizard, but I wasn't sure about Sauron. Thanks.

balrogs are also maiar.

no problem Heather.
Wait, balrogs are those snakelike-demons, right? Ones who live in moria?

Isn't a balrog what Gandalf the Grey fought and then became Gandalf the White?

yep...there is only one in moria. they were morgoth's most feared servants in the Silmarillion.
there were probably about 7 of them. or so says the arda encyclopedia.

So what do the other Balrog's represent? Are they all shadow and fire?

The Encyclopedia of Arda is so helpful! I love it. It's a bookmark. It answers most of my questions. But, whatever I can't find there I just look to Shadow for the Answer.

I don't have all that time to go searching around for books like that, let alone time to actually read them...otherwise I would! I leave it to people like Shadow,
also, to relay the answers to me...So...how about the Balrogs Shadow?

The Encyclopedia of Arda is online. You can look things up, but just typing in a one word search.

www.glyphweb.com/arda/

The Balrogs were originally Maiars, angelic beings of lesser stature than the Valdar (like Morgoth) but immortal beings which nonetheless possesed considerable power. They were chiefly spirits of fire which meant they could create and control fire about them but they also could control and use magic. In the book during the confrontation between Gandalf and the Balrog of Moria, Gandalf tries to hold the door to Balin's Tomb with magic but the Balrog uses a counter-spell to open the door which results in it breaking. As to how many there were well Tolkien never really gives us an accurate account but does mention that after the Last Battle of the First Age there were some Balrog that escaped the wrath and destruction of the Valar and went into hidding in caves. The exact numbers were never given and the Balrog at Moria is one of these lucky ones. He left open the possibility of more Balrgos still buried deep and waiting to be awakened. Hope this helps guys

Erika

And Heather thanks for that link..I did not have it!

Um...sort of!

What else do you not understand TearUUp?

Why PJ just couldn't get the damn movies right in the first place?

hahahahaha *grins* I have asked myself that repeatedly after seeing the 3rd movie last night.........went home kinda mad after seeing it!!!

Didn't like it? Or...just dissappointed?

Sheesh I am SO MAD that they left the bad guys and anything bad out of the movie!!! I mean come on PJ what is wrong with no happily ever afters? Not only did they cut out Saruman but the cut out (completely) the destruction of the Shire by him and wormtongue!!!!! The hobbits go back to the Shire and find it just like they left it..........which is NOT what happens in the books if you've read them.............

Also there is one part where Aragorn sings that well I had to get up!

I can't see Viggo singing.

Hahahhahaha Heather I satrted laughing and was told to shut up........simply put....... but I cnat stand singing in any movie..........a musical is different

Why was he singing?

Scruffy old Aragorn singing? Blech! Hey Heather, haven't ya'll seen it yet? I haven't had a chance too yet...too busy!
I repeat...Scruffy old Aragorn singing? Blech!

Ya'll just ruined it for me! I want to watch action...not the sound of music!

I believe the word was scuzzy, TearUUp. They should've cut out the singing and put in the destruction of the Shire.

Ohhhhhhhhh Tearupp it is one short part at the end when he is being coronated...lasted like 5 seconds!! I just thought it was funny with his scruffy voice and all......... had to laugh but guess the other Aragorn fans did not appreciate it and hey I don't know where you are from........ referring to your Location answer!!

I AGREE Heather 200%

Boise, Idaho! *hangs head in embarrassment*
And don't give me any crap about it...Heather already gave me enough! I'm not FROM here...I just live here right now!
What about ya'll? Heather won't say where!

I live in the Shire. Near the Gamgees

Hhahahahahaha I was NOT going to say anything.......but just what did Heather tease you about???? as for me I live in Sunny Cali, near Hollywood...............the land of the rich and fake!!!

She gave me crap about friggin' BOISE IDAHO!!! What else? So that's why ya'll are all over the movie scene?! Hollywood!
Heather....the Shire???? Near Bagend?

Yep if you want to put it that way..........umm on another note maybe I am naive or don't get out much but what am I missing about Boise, Idaho?? I still don't get what there is to make fun of Tearuup

And come now Heather you are not from the Shire not are you?

Yes I am. The Old Gaffer has me over for tea all the time.

Hah...the Gaffer doesn't drink tea! He's a lush! I caught ya'll in a lie! Ya'll almost had me there Heather!!!

Jokers...BOISE sucks!!! It's terrible here! I'd get out...but for this marriage and my real estate investments!

Really Tearuup <<<< hence the name? I have never travelled there or know anyone living there so I will take your word for it! And believe me all places suck, I hate living in Cali and want to move when given the chance........... Europe sounds wonderful *wishful thinkin*

I'm going back to the Oregon Coast first chance I get...literally...I'm going there for a week or so on Friday. But if I had the chance to move there permenantly...
*shoots self out of cannon towards OC*

Well Oregon is only a state away Tearuup!!!

You should all move to the Shire with me. Don't worry, it's nice here. Peter Jackson didn't let it get destroyed. He kicked Saruman out of Middle Earth.

Tell me Heather do the birds sing everyday and the sky is always blue?

The shire is beautiful.

Heather...is the Shire in Ohio or Illinois or what?

Middle Earth silly! The western part.

You're killing me here! I live in friggin' Mordor!

Mordor doesnt seem too bad Tearuup.........and Heather you are killing him, just tell him already!

She's not going to! I don't blame her....totally...I mean there are freaks out there that stalk Hobbits, and due to her username...I probably wouldn't either! Of course I am a guy and a fighter and I welcome trouble...still....

I am hiding from the Nazgul. They know that I have it.

Mordor sucks...it's hot as hell here in the summer and cold in the winter...this Mordor doesn't have a Mt. Doom...and noone knows how to drive!

Eyes always watching!!!

I bet the crime rate is high.

Here?

IN mordor

Not really...us Uruk-hai scare off the would be criminals!

Hahahahahaha you two are insane!!! Hey Tearuup can I borrow a few Orcs and Uruk-hai, Hollywood needs a little more darkness and a little less shine!!

heather does live in the shire, cuz i've been there I frequently wander middle earth, and mordor...yeesh...that place is hell.

Hey now! The Shire got destroyed though...right? Ahha!!! Got ya'll again Heather!

The Shire gets destroyed in the books Tearuup, but I guess this was not what PJ wanted to show in the movies.... since the bastard left Saruman out of ROTK............. arggggggggggggggggg

Heather stopped him before he could destroy the Shire!!! Wow! Heather's my hero!

Yayyyyyyyyyyy Heather....... I think!!

No...bbbboooooooo Heather, because that part was left out of the movie!

they should have put that in the movie!

They couldn't...because Heather wouldn't let em'! Man, she is gonna be mad at me when she comes back online!

hehehehhe she hasnt posted for ages.

I have seen her here though.........she's just syping...... getting enough ammunition to kill Tear with

So back to the Maiar.........

Hey, so if Gandalf is something shy of one...how come Sarumon is not? Or is he?

Istari/Wizards are all Maiar.

But he is Tear... in fact the was the strongest of them all, he was their leader............. Gandalf only surpassed him after he died fighting the Balrog of Moria...........

Saruman was their leader because he really insisted on leading the White Council. Galadriel and the elves wanted it to be Gandalf, but he wanted to be free to do his work in Middle Earth.

Okay told ya'll (<< hehe) I was naive about Boise, Idaho?? Tatoes...... ummm I want mashed ones....... yumm yumm.........

Taters...what's taters, Precious?

And it's TearUUp!

who were the other two wizards? anyone know?

There were 5 in all........ from Millde Earth anyhow since there were other Maiar:


Istari
#1 Saruman
#2 Gandalf
#3 Radagast
#4 Pallando
#5 Alatar

thank you! i knew Sarry, Gandy and Rad but the other two i didnt know!

What about Sauron?

isnt any more though!

Yeah, good for Gandalf!!! Go Gandalf!!!

No Saruon is actually part of the Fallen Non-Istari Maiar..... Gandalf was of the Istari Maiar..........

There are 4 groups of Maiar:

#1 Istari
#2 Maiar of Valinor
#3 Maiar of Middle Eart, Non-Astari
#4 Fallen Maiar, Non-Astari (the bad guys)

I didn't mean to say he was Istari joker-girl. I was just confirming he was maiar.

Um...Sauron wasn't all that tough...just throw a measly ring in some lava and his a$s is whopped!

Yeah, except for the measly part.

That is what happens when you put it all on one thing.......as Sauron did with the ring of power........... that's why I don't play the stock market........ too risky........... one wrong move and you are SCREWED............ but back to the topic, which was what btw???

yeah...the ring is not so measly...

Maiar.

how come we never keep to the topic? fucia will kill us!

Hey, I was talking about Sauron who is a Maiar!

i know....it was just a random thing that i said, really applying to the other threads that we never keep on topic :P

Okay....so, how did Sauron get to make the one ring? How did that come into being making him so powerful?

The mods themselves go off-topic many times peregr!n, so don't worry about it.

im not worrying...i never worry...

There we go with the contradictions.

Sauron! Sauron! Info?!

Dude, go to www.glyphweb.com/arda and read about him. I think it will help a lot.

p.s. The site seems to be momentarily down though.

and PPS it has fairly little on Sauron. its meant as an addition to book info. it assumes you've read the some of the Silmarillion, and all of LOTR.

grrrrr, stupid internet!

Shadow explain Sauron to Tear after all you are the expert!!!

I've read none of that! That's why I ask questions, to have the geniuses in the now relay the info! So, no one wants to answer that question, right? I am not looking for the guy's whole life story! Short summery will do!

well the reason Sauron was so good at making rings was because he originally served the Vala Orome who was the master forger. Thats where sauron got all his info. he then tricked the elves into making rings for him. He then forged the one ring, to rule all the others that the elves had made. into The One Ring, he put most of his power, so that when he wore it, he was basically twice as powerful. he then tried to take the rings from the elves, and conquer middle earth. the rest of it is in the Silmarillion, which we will be discussing, and LOTR which you should be reading.

i never knew most of that!

Hey, here is another question...why the Hell were the men given 9 rings while the elves only had 3?

By the way...thanx Shadow!

Keep going Shadow, and you may yet win an admirer!!! Just kidding, you are quite good.

you're not perfect? aaah! i thought you were a good rolemodel...now i find out i was wrong....so disapointed...

Where did sauron come from???

Actually if you read the books you will see that in actually Sauron hated the elves so much that all the ring were meant for them............ since they were not falling under his spell ..... he went on to the next weak people.. who lusted after power and greed......... basically men and dwarves........ that is why the elves only have 3 rings

hope this helped. and shadow correct me if I am wrong!

is that in answer to my question?

But I thought the 3 elvish rings were out of his power. Am I wrong?

Sauron was actually Anuir, part of the Maiar of Aule............. until he decided to follow Melkor the first fallen of the Valar..........

thats what i thought!
wow im a veteran!

His weakness? What do you mean by that?

The three rings that the Wise kept were forged by Celebrimbor.

And the others by Sauron, right?

yes Sauron forged the 7 and the 9 and then went around giving them as "gifts" to men and elves. obviously the men fell under his control. the dwarves however did not, as they are very stubborn and want gold and wealth, not power. though the treasure hoardes of the dwarves were supposedly founded on 1 of their rings. and because of the nature of they're rings, their wealth ended up bringing doom upon them, more than likely in the forms of Durin's Bane, aka the Balrog, and Smaug the dragon

Aha...is that how Moria fell?

I think so. Can you confirm, Shadow Stalker?

yes. the Dwarves dug to deeply and awoke the Balrog. The Balrog had been in a cave or cavern that was very near Moria. It had fled there after the destruction of Thangorodrim, and the breaking of the world. eventually the dwarves disturbed it, and it woke up; on the wrong side of the bed too. the Balrog killed Durin, the father of all dwarves, and killed his son too. he appearently killed a fair number of their population as well. The dwarves then fled to other mountains, eventually settling at Erebor or the Lonely Mountain, before being driven out again by Smaug the last of the great dragons. They then moved to the iron hills, before taking up abode in the Lonely mountain with the death of Smaug.
It was rumored that the dwarves would never again keep Moria until a power greater than their removed the Balrog from its halls. After the War of the Ring i believe that it states that Moria was again colonized.

Why would they do that if they couldn't confirm that the damn Balrog was gone? Damn Dwarves!

Greed. They wanted more Minthril.

Damn greedy dwarves!

Sorry to be picky, but its mithril, I believe.

Someone had to make Bilbo's shirt though, I guess! Their sacrifice was for naught!

But Mithril was above all the gems and gold in the world............... and come on, we know these dwarves were greedy when it came to that!

Um...no, but I do now!

Unfinished Tales Shadow

knew it was one of the 2..

I meant...before the Balrog was killed by Gandalf! Okay, misunderstanding! I thought that you meant the dwarves moved back in after Ilsidur beat Sauron! That's why I didn't understand why they would without confirmation!

Dude, didn't you see the first movie?

I've seen em' all, but he confused me by mixing the history with the modern!

actually they did move back in after Isuldor beat Sauron...they moved back in about 6 years before the council of Elrond takes place...they did well for a while..but then they got beaten down by multitudinous orcs...and the Balrog and Watcher in the water didn't help any either.

nothisiswhathappens whenyourhand isssmesseedupp....or is that when your keyboard is sticky?.....

I didn't mean to make you feel sorry, fuscia. Please don't feel bad.

Aha! So I was legitimately confused!

At least my question got answered though so it's all good!

Does anyone know what book or books actually says that the Wizards are Maiar?

Shouldn't you know, having read them all?

I have read the Hobbit, LOTR, and the Silmarillion. The Silmarillion was a few years ago. I am re reading it now.
So, no I don't know.

Well, I suppoe Shadow Stalker can stop stalking the shadow and answer your question instead.

What's up Shadow....huh? Got the answer? Huh? Huh? And I'll kindly remind you to form all answers in the form of a question!

I read it in the History of Middle-Earthand the Atlas of Middle-Earth (yes I am a book junkie!) Fuscia as well as in the Encyclopedia of Arda..........I thought the Silmarillion made a refence as well.............

Ah, there we go!!! Good job joker-girl!!!

Thanks JH. I don't have all of those books, and I do not remember it in the Silmarillion.

Well I might be wrong about the Silmarillion......... it's been a while since I've read that one.......... and if you think that book is hard, the other are murder and REALLY for hard-die fans of Tolkien.............. it's like reading encyclopedias..........

I can't imagine how you guys do that. I tried to read Fellowship of the Ring, but couldn't go on after about 2/3 of the book. And I always thought that I loved novels!!!

Why not MM?

The writing style of Tolkien makes it a little boring for me.

p.s. Everyone, lets get back on the topic.

you can deduce that the wizards are Maiar from the Silmarillion, as it mentions Olorim as a Maia...Olorim being Gandalf.