Saddam was held by Kurdish forces, drugged and left for US troops

Post-9/11 Era Forum

Saddam Hussein was captured by US troops only after he had been taken prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American soldiers to recover him, a British Sunday newspaper said.

Saddam came into the hands of the Kurdish Patriotic Front after being betrayed to the group by a member of the al-Jabour tribe, whose daughter had been raped by Saddam's son Uday, leading to a blood feud, reported the Sunday Express, which quoted an unnamed senior British military intelligence officer.

The newspaper said the full story of events leading up to the ousted Iraqi president's capture on December 13 near his hometown of Tikrit in northern Iraq, "exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete".

A former Iraqi intelligence officer, whom the Express did not name, told the paper that Saddam was held prisoner by a leader of the Kurdish Patriotic Front, which fought alongside US forces during the Iraq war, until he negotiated a deal.

The deal apparently involved the group gaining political advantage in the region.

An unnamed Western intelligence source in the Middle East told the Express: "Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British intelligence. We knew that someone would eventually take their revenge, it was just a matter of time."

Source: AP

This will prove more embarrasssing for the U.S., when its proved to be true. it can't have been easy to gave shoved a drugged man down a hole like that!

What a load of bullsh*it.

Let's see here:

A British tabloid newspaper....

An unnamed senior British military intelligence officer....

An unnamed Iraqi intelligence officer...

"Saddam Hussein was captured by US troops only after he had been taken prisoner by Kurdish forces, drugged and abandoned ready for American soldiers to recover him"

Revealed only two days after the camel slut Raghad, Saddam's daughter, states:

"My father is drugged. I am 100 percent convinced."


This reminds me alot of the Jessica Lynch fiasco instigated by the BBC last Spring. Same bullsh*it... different bull.

thanks jvstr you sure put me in my place now can you just write and tell people jvstr isn't an alternative pen name I use to make right wingers look silly?

You really haven't got it yet have you?

jvstr--I think you better watch how you talk to people in these forums. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You don't need to be insulting or abusive. If you want to rant and rave go to the flamer's ward.

If jvstr's speeeling and punkchewashun are any indication of his intelligence we have nothing to worry about anyhow. I ignore the fool.

While i can appreciate most of the opposition(almost everyone who opposes tries to make a valid point and doesn't make personal attacks) on this board i have no time at all for this guy as he's a few thoughts short of a personality. Sorry

I like to discuss my opinions with people, even if they differ. But I don't like to be insulted. That does not contribute to the forum at all.

Thanks marc for posting that Article its one of the best uses of farce I've seen in a long time. those kurds were so modest not wanting credit for the capture of SH!

LOL @ Dragon

...and let me be clear that i am not for insults or belittling either. I think this forum expects a level of maturity... especially when discussing a topic such as this.

If news were any indication we'd be inundated with speculation at this point. I just did a quick search of news and i found quite a few news sources were reporting this very story. If i weren't so skeptical i'd have to wonder. Wait now - i read another view of this and they DID make some interesting points. Not proof, but still some interesting points to be considered.

One word here:

.org


Now, go pound more sand!

Maybe your head's in all that sand you keep talking about Curl?

** We got him: Kurds say they caught Saddam, McGeogh, Sydney Morning Herald

** Saddam: Betrayed, drugged and traded Aljazeera

** Saddam was captured by Kurds, not US Sify.com

** Revealed: Who Really Found Saddam? Pratt, Sunday Herald/Scotland

Saddam held by Kurds, drugged and left for US troops: report ABC News Online

Kurds claim Saddam capture News.com.au (12/22/03)

Kurds Seized Saddam First, Novinite/Bulgaria

'Revenge for rape behind Saddam capture'

Report: ''Saddam capture - not result of American or British intelligence'' Al Bawaba.com

Saddam was held by Kurdish forces, drugged and left for US troops Arab Times/Kuwait

Kurds claim Saddam capture The Australian (12/22/03)

Kurds claim Saddam capture Herald Sun/AU (12/22/03)

Saddam was held by Kurds and left for US troops: ReportHindustan Times (copy of AFP report)

Saddam was held by Kurdish forces, drugged and left for US troops Channel News Asia (AFP report)

Kurds claim Saddam capture The Advertiser/AU (12/22/03)

** Kurds, Not U.S. Captured Saddam: Report Islam Online/UK

Saddam was held by Kurdish forces, drugged and left for US troops Kurdish Media (AFP report)


Revealed: Who Really Found Saddam? Infoshop News (Pratt article)


Kurds, Not U.S. Captured Saddam: Report Palestinian Chronicle

** ‘Kurdish forces nabbed & drugged Saddam’ The Statesman/India

Kurds nabbed Saddam first? Today Online/Singapore (AFP report)

Saddam Captured by Kurds; US Troops Get Photo Opp Conspiracy Planet

Aw don't tell me Surley Joe's head is in the sand that will just make me want to go pound sand!

here's one straight from the conspiracy theory files (jv and curls ought to get a kick out of it), apparently Debka.com are Israelis.

Anyway:

http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=743

Indications Saddam Was Not in Hiding But a Captive

DEBKAfile Special Report

December 14, 2003, 6:55 PM (GMT+02:00)

A number of questions are raised by the incredibly bedraggled, tired and crushed condition of this once savage, dapper and pampered ruler who was discovered in a hole in the ground on Saturday, December 13:

1. The length and state of his hair indicated he had not seen a barber or even had a shampoo for several weeks.

2. The wild state of his beard indicated he had not shaved for the same period

3. The hole dug in the floor of a cellar in a farm compound near Tikrit was primitive indeed – 6ft across and 8ft across with minimal sanitary arrangements - a far cry from his opulent palaces.

4. Saddam looked beaten and hungry.

5. Detained trying to escape were two unidentified men. Left with him were two AK-47 assault guns and a pistol, none of which were used.

6. The hole had only one opening. It was not only camouflaged with mud and bricks – it was blocked. He could not have climbed out without someone on the outside removing the covering.

7. And most important, $750,000 in 100-dollar notes were found with him (a pittance for his captors who expected a $25m reward)– but no communications equipment of any kind, whether cell phone or even a carrier pigeon for contacting the outside world.

According to DEBKAfile analysts, these seven anomalies point to one conclusion: Saddam Hussein was not in hiding; he was a prisoner.

After his last audiotaped message was delivered and aired over al Arabiya TV on Sunday November 16, on the occasion of Ramadan, Saddam was seized, possibly with the connivance of his own men, and held in that hole in Adwar for three weeks or more, which would have accounted for his appearance and condition. Meanwhile, his captors bargained for the $25 m prize the Americans promised for information leading to his capture alive or dead. The negotiations were mediated by Jalal Talabani’s Kurdish PUK militia.

These circumstances would explain the ex-ruler’s docility – described by Lt.Gen. Ricardo Sanchez as “resignation” – in the face of his capture by US forces. He must have regarded them as his rescuers and would have greeted them with relief.

From Gen. Sanchez’s evasive answers to questions on the $25m bounty, it may be inferred that the Americans and Kurds took advantage of the negotiations with Saddam’s abductors to move in close and capture him on their own account, for three reasons:

A. His capture had become a matter of national pride for the Americans. No kudos would have been attached to his handover by a local gang of bounty-seekers or criminals. The country would have been swept anew with rumors that the big hero Saddam was again betrayed by the people he trusted, just as in the war.

B. It was vital to catch his kidnappers unawares so as to make sure Saddam was taken alive. They might well have killed him and demanded the prize for his body. But they made sure he had no means of taking his own life and may have kept him sedated.

C. During the weeks he is presumed to have been in captivity, guerrilla activity declined markedly – especially in the Sunni Triangle towns of Falluja, Ramadi and Balad - while surging outside this flashpoint region – in Mosul in the north and Najef, Nasseriya and Hilla in the south. It was important for the coalition to lay hands on him before the epicenter of the violence turned back towards Baghdad and the center of the Sunni Triangle.

The next thing to watch now is not just where and when Saddam is brought to justice for countless crimes against his people and humanity - Sanchez said his interrogation will take “as long as it takes – but what happens to the insurgency. Will it escalate or gradually die down?

An answer to this, according to DEBKAfile’s counter-terror sources, was received in Washington nine days before Saddam reached US custody.

It came in the form of a disturbing piece of intelligence that the notorious Lebanese terrorist and hostage-taker Imad Mughniyeh, who figures on the most wanted list of 22 men published by the FBI after 9/11, had arrived in southern Iraq and was organizing a new anti-US terror campaign to be launched in March-April 2004, marking the first year of the American invasion.

For the past 21 years, Mughniyeh has waged a war of terror against Americans, whether on behalf of the Hizballah, the Iranian Shiite fundamentalists, al Qaeda or for himself. The Lebanese arch-terrorist represents for the anti-American forces in Iraq an ultimate weapon.

Saddam’s capture will not turn this offensive aside; it may even bring it forward.

For Israel, there are three lessons to be drawn from the dramatic turn of events in Iraq:

First, An enemy must be pursued to the end and if necessary taken captive. The Sharon government’s conduct of an uncertain, wavering war against the Palestinian terror chief Yasser Arafat stands in stark contrast to the way the Americans have fought Saddam and his cohorts in Iraq and which has brought them impressive gains.

Second, Israel must join the US in bracing for the decisive round of violence under preparation by Mughniyeh, an old common enemy from the days of Beirut in the 1980s. Only three weeks ago, DEBKAfile’s military sources reveal, the terrorist mastermind himself was seen in south Lebanon in surveillance of northern Israel in the company of Iranian military officers. With this peril still to be fought, it is meaningless for Israelis to dicker over the Geneva Accord, unilateral steps around the Middle East road map, or even the defensive barrier.

Third, Certain Israeli pundits and even politicians, influenced by opinion in Europe, declared frequently in recent weeks that the Americans had no hope of capturing Saddam Hussein and were therefore bogged down irretrievably in Iraq. The inference was that the Americans erred in embarking on an unwinnable war in Iraq.

This was wide of the mark even before Saddam was brought in. The Americans are in firm control - even though they face a tough new adversary – and the whole purpose of the defeatist argument heard in Israel was to persuade the Sharon government that its position in relation to the Palestinians and Yasser Arafat is as hopeless as that of the Americans in Iraq. Israel’s only choice, according to this argument, is to knuckle under to Palestinian demands and give them what they want. Now that the Iraqi ruler is in American custody, they will have to think again.

b14 December

Commander of US ground forces in Iraq, Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, said at the dramatic news conference in Baghdad (Bremer: We Got him!), that Saddam Hussein was discovered in a “spider hole” 6-8ft deep behind a mud hut in a walled farm compound in Adwar, a town 15 km from Tikrit, eight months after his regime was toppled.

His capture was achieved without a shot fired and no injuries. He was emaciated, tired and unkempt and had grown a gray beard. The initial medical examination was videotaped and aired. He was then shaved for identification. Found with him were two AK-47 assault rifles and $750,000. Two associates were detained with him. A ventilator enabled them to stay underground. The hole in which Saddam was hiding was camouflaged with bricks and dirt.

Operation “Red Dawn” was carried by 4th Infantry Division and coalition special forces – 600 men. It was made possible by a great deal of human intelligence and the interrogation of captives.

Gen. Sanchez reported the deposed Iraqi ruler, discovered Saturday, December 13, at 8.30 pm local time, showed no resistance and appeared resigned to his fate. He was “talkative and cooperative” while being taken to a secure place. The interrogation will “take as long as it takes.”

US administrator Paul Bremer called on the Iraqi people to turn to reconciliation and Saddam’s followers to lay down their arms.

US troops poured into Baghdad and blocked the road-bridges into the capital as soon as word spread, in anticipation of violence from Saddam fedayeen or foreign terrorists fighting the US-led coalition presence. Baghdadis fired guns in the air to celebrate the capture of the man who ruled the country with an iron fist for 23 years. Kurdish and Shiite towns filled with dancing and jubilation. Iraq officials demand Saddam be handed over to the new Iraqi war crimes tribunal to be judged for the murder of 300,000 Iraqis.

If that was the case, all I can say is, "Thanks Kurds!", but I doubt it.
Who cares, the basterds day are numbered.
If the Kurds captured him, do think they would have left the documents with him? I doubt it. And what is the purpose? They would have killed him and turned over the body. They wouldn't spare him another moment and allow him live another minute.
Get real.

As one Kurdish woman said (who had lost family to Saddam), that if the Kurds got him they would keep him alive in prison and cut a little piece from his body every day...

Considering where he was found, perhaps local and loving friendly tribesmen (Saddam's) did capture and hold him hoping for ransom?

Maybe.

I'm sure Saddam will set the record straight during public trial.

Does it matter? Maybe I missed the point. Do you mean its bad we got him as sloppy seconds rather than sloppy firsts?

Or was this just a brain cell exercise for conspiracy theorists?

Maybe indeed Charles - but I wonder had that woman had hold of Saddam and had the choice of cutting bits off him and 30 million buck-a-roonies which way she'd go.

The point is that as per usual with this Administration there's more to come in the way of the truth, because as per WMDs, Saddam's links with Osama, Jessica Lynch's heroics, etc etc etc etc, they're not going to let the truth hinder a feel-good (or bad) story.

Inside the daring nighttime raid that nabbed Saddam — and what it means for Bush and Iraq
By NANCY GIBBS

Even before he is brought to trial, there was justice in the news that Saddam Hussein had survived by being buried alive. Like a pharaoh in his tomb, he had surrounded himself with symbols of his lost power — two AK-47s, a pistol, $750,000 in $100 bills. The Butcher of Baghdad was nestled underground with pictures of Ben Franklin. The hunt for Saddam that began with a hellfire of bombs eight months ago ended without a shot being fired. It was soldiers from the Raider Brigade of the Army’s 4th Infantry Division who dug him out of the 8-ft.-deep spider hole; the palace monster of monuments and torture chambers had been reduced to the life of a bug. His captors picked through his shaggy hair, the raccoon beard. They scraped his throat, checked his teeth. “Merry Christmas,” said the soldiers to one another, and they lit cigars and took pictures and smiled.

It was a relief to see him made small enough to handcuff because the phantom had become too big, and you can’t bring peace to a haunted house. Bribes and threats and rockets and satellites had failed to find him, even with the world’s mightiest army conducting the manhunt. The President had stopped talking about him, as if he were superstitious or trying to change the subject. People bought Saddam golf balls, Saddam piñatas, voodoo dolls, to satisfy the need to hit back and not feel helpless every time he taunted his hunters with a new videotape to rally his followers, every time we heard of a new ambush conducted in his name.

With his capture, we exhale, after a long, deep breath we have held for a year. We can measure the meaning of his capture by the measures we have taken — old alliances and long traditions discarded to go to war to take him out and, in the name of democracy, a war that was opposed by vast majorities in most democracies on earth. Hundreds of soldiers killed, hundreds more wounded, $4 billion a month spent and billions more to come, a country broken in pieces that we will be helping rebuild for years to come. And so what is the gift this capture has brought? Perhaps a true taste of freedom from fear for 25 million people who could never quite have faith that the tyranny was over while the tyrant was still loose. It was an antidote to the contempt expressed by Arab and European commentators who poked the American tiger: See, you can’t even catch Saddam.

"The capture of this man was crucial to the rise of a free Iraq," Bush said in a nationally broadcast address from the Cabinet Room. "It marks the end of the road for him and for all who bullied and killed in his name."

Other implications of Saddam’s capture are less clear. Will it encourage Bush to reach out to other European allies to help in the policing and reconstruction of Iraq, or will he be encouraged to stick to his current course? And how will this victory affect Bush’s re-election campaign in 2004 — and, perhaps more to the point, the campaigns of the Democratic candidates, including front runner Howard Dean, who want to replace him?

It was a team of 600 soldiers from the 4th Infantry Division and U.S. special forces that acted on the tip that Saddam was hiding in a little town called al-Dawr, 15 miles from his hometown of Tikrit. These soldiers had been scouring the area for months in the belief that he would stay close to home, where loyalty among those who most benefited from his rule still ran deep. U.S. intelligence sources tell Time that over the past month they were getting better leads. “In the last three to four weeks, our forces have been able to capture people we’ve been hunting all summer,” said Lieut. Colonel Steven Russell, the commander of the 4th’s 1-22 Infantry Regiment. “This was the inner circle, and we were taking pieces out of it.” Last week they could tell they were getting closer and closer. “Four days ago, an individual was captured that led to the capture of the man we believed was Saddam’s right-hand man,” Russell told Time. “He was captured two days ago. Information he had led to information that led to the capture of Saddam Hussein.”

But the pressure was also intense. Just the week before, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld was in the region pressing the officers about why this was taking so long. Sitting in front of walls lined with maps and flat video screens, Rumsfeld marveled at the elusiveness of the quarry. “I’m dumbfounded when I think about it,” he told Army Major General Raymond Odierno, commander of the 4th Infantry. “The chances of us using that kind of money to find somebody — to figure out how to invest some time and develop a network and produce the information that would do it — I mean, that ought to be doable.”

But it was not until 8 o’clock on Saturday night, with the launch of Operation Red Dawn, that they finally began to close in on the prize. The hunters spread out across two locations, labeled Wolverine One and Wolverine Two. Locals in al-Dawr say the house is owned by Qais al-Nameq, who was a personal attendant of Saddam who returned a few years ago. His two sons were arrested along with Saddam. These residents say al-Nameq was arrested and the second location the Americans searched was his farm. At first, the searches of a rural farmhouse, however, turned up little that was suspicious. But after all these years of deception, all these months of hunting, given Saddam’s reputation for tunnels and safe rooms and secrets, the soldiers knew to scrape the paint off the walls in the event he was hiding behind them. So they cordoned off the area and took out their tweezers, searching every corner. On the premises there was a small, walled compound with a mud hut and a metal lean-to. There they found the entrance to the hole, camouflaged with dirt and bricks, with just enough space to lie down, a fan and an air vent. It appears he had been shuttled around in an orange-and-white taxi. U.S. ground-forces commander in Iraq Lieut. General Ricardo Sanchez said Saddam put up no fight, was talkative, cooperating. Says a top White House aide: “He was very forthcoming about who he was.”

President George W. Bush first got word from Rumsfeld on Saturday afternoon in a call to Camp David. “We think we may have him,” Rumsfeld announced, and the President said to keep him informed. The President had already planned to return to the White House early to avoid a snowstorm descending on the mid-Atlantic coast that could have prevented his attending a special Christmas show taping the next day. Bush called Adnan Pachachi, the acting president of the Iraqi governing council, to congratulate him; as they were trying to get him on the cell phone Pachachi was with Bremer at Saddam’s holding location. He couldn’t take the phone immediately because he was berating the fallen dictator.

“Ladies and gentlemen, we got him,” Ambassador L. Paul Bremer, tears in his eyes, told the news conference, which erupted in cheers. “Iraq’s future, your future, has never been more full of hope. The tyrant is a prisoner.” From the first moment the American video of Saddam in custody began rolling, Iraqi journalists stood and screamed. Some yelled, “Kill him! Kill Saddam.” The people of Baghdad caught the spirit of hope and pain, firing bullets into the sky and throwing candy, lighting firecrackers in the street. “They got Saddam!” “The devil is gone.” It was like a wedding day, or perhaps more a birthday. “We will be friends with the Americans because of this,” said a delighted Syed Hassan al Naji, the Baghdad commander of gadfly cleric Moqtada Sadr’s militia, the Army of Mehdi. In his white turban and long robes, Al-Naji beamed with pleasure in his neighbor’s house in Sadr City as the news came out over the Arabic news channels. “This is a great day.”

Hashim Kamal al Naami, a 78-year-old political exile living in Ukraine started crying when he heard that the rumors of Saddam’s capture were confirmed. “I can’t believe it,” he said over a satellite phone to his son in Baghdad. A lawyer and retired staff brigadier for the Iraqi Army who was openly critical of Saddam’s regime, al-Naami finally concluded that it is now safe to return, after more than a decade of living abroad. “There’s no need for me to stay away anymore,” he said over the phone. While he was speaking, his Iraqi friends were planning a celebration in the Yalta town hall for the hundreds of Iraqi political exiles who live in the area. “It’s not only the living Iraqis that are celebrating,” he said. “Even the dead Iraqis are celebrating in their graveyards.”

There was no celebration in Tikrit, Saddam’s home town, and elsewhere former regime members were sullen and glum, looking for further proof, refusing to believe even when word came that the confirmation went beyond the local authorities, beyond the CIA and the Pentagon, down to the level of his scars and his cells, a DNA test. According to Senator Pat Roberts, head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, the U.S. had some of Saddam’s senior aides driven to Tikrit to view him and confirm it was him. A shopkeeper there named Basim al-Tikriti said, “I am shocked. I cannot move my body. I feel like I am frozen.”

Does this mean that the attacks on U.S. soldiers every day, the roadside bombs and downtown ambushes and mortars fired at headquarters would die away? There never was good evidence that Saddam was controlling the insurgency, and the circumstances in which he was found — hiding in a hole, accompanied by an entourage of only two — suggest he was too isolated to play any central role. However, his arrest could still profoundly rattle the resistance. The Pentagon estimated that nine of 10 insurgents were former regime loyalists. To the extent they were driven by a rational agenda — restoring the old regime to power — they are now deprived of their end goal. The insurgents are, for the most part, Baathists, and throughout his rule Saddam was the party and the party was Saddam.“I think it will let the wind out of the sails,” says Russell. “And if not, these people who continue to support him are completely stupid.”

There are practical reasons to think Saddam’s capture may help quell the resistance. For one thing, even if Saddam’s leadership was not central to the insurgency, his money likely was. Many of the resistance fighters the U.S. has picked up were essentially mercenaries, former criminals or jobless men who were paid to strike U.S. forces. His arrest increases the chance that Iraqis will feel safe to turn in other insurgents, as happened after the siege that ended in the deaths of Saddam's sons Uday and Qusay.

There remains, however, the resistance fighters who have no loyalty to Saddam but fight for other, larger causes. They will likely be affected in different ways: the jihadis are not known to have yet established in Iraq their own infrastructure for fighting. Rather, they are thought to have joined up with Baathists, who can provide them the intelligence, the money, the munitions and the vehicles to deliver them in their attacks. To the extent the Baathists are hurt, they may be hurt too.

At the same time, no one is expecting the conflict to end abruptly, especially the military commanders who work out of one of Saddam’s ornate palaces overlooking the Tigris River in Tikrit. “We expect a spike in enemy activity,” says Captain Mitch Carlisle. “We’re more focused on alert than ever. We’re not letting our guard down at all.”

The news meant that the man George Bush vowed to hunt down was now at his mercy, and so he has choices to make. He could declare victory and go home, but nothing in his reflexes or rhetoric suggests that, having placed Saddam in a cage, he is inclined to leave his other promises unfulfilled. And so the latest in the series of tests of a President’s instincts and motives comes to this: Does he trust the people he says he went to war to free to do the right thing? If a sense of justice is the necessary rock on which democracies stand, how can anyone other than his countrymen have a greater right to put him on trial? But how would that work, who leads the prosecution, who defends him, and what laws apply? “There’s an Iraqi catharsis that has to take place,” says one senior State Department official. “The nation has to see it on their TVs and they have to feel like they did it.”

That the Americans captured Saddam alive spares Bush the problem he faced after Saddam’s sons were killed last summer: even after camera crews were allowed to film the dead bodies of Uday and Qusay, many Iraqis remained unconvinced it was them. Given the depraved legacies of the sons, it was like trying to convince the Iraqis that the devil had been killed. This time, the devil is in custody, walking, talking, clearly himself. “I imagine he was almost relieved,” a Pentagon official said. “I mean, he lost his power, his country, his sons — and he lost his freedom in a lot of ways before we got him.”

It’s equally significant that the devil, at least so far, isn’t spitting fire. Had Saddam been taken in a pressed shirt, well-groomed, standing tall, spouting defiance, the Americans would have a new problem on their hands. A dignified Saddam being manhandled by imperialist troops could well have become a rallying figure not just for former Baathists, but for Arab nationalists in Iraq and outside it. Whatever posture Saddam takes in whatever tribunal he appears in, he will likely never live down that image of him scruffy, defeated, opening his mouth for the doctor like a good boy. “It’s like he’s a goat,” one Iraqi delighted, watching the images of Saddam being searched on TV.

With Saddam at last captured one mystery is solved, but others now simmer. What happened to his weapons, his money, his remaining allies? What were his plans? Will all the Iraqis who have never learned what happened to their brother, their uncle, their neighbor now get the maps to the rest of the mass graves? Will they find a way toward reconciliation, Sunni and Shi‘a, Arab and Kurd, as every hopeful official set as a necessary step on a path toward true peace? The world waits for a new chapter and history prepares, once again, to turn on a dime.

TIME Magazine

— WITH REPORTING BY BRIAN BENNETT/BAGHDAD, MICHAEL WARE/AL-DAWR, PHIL ZABRISKIE/TIKRIT AND JOHN F. DICKERSON, MARK THOMPSON AND DOUGLAS WALLER/WASHINGTON

You're pretty hard to embarrass Curly, as nearly every one of your posts can attest.

But what would be embarrassing?

They haven't found any WMDs Bush said were there - you weren't embarrassed.

The document purporting a link between Saddam and Niger and a batch of uranium was proved to be a lie - you weren't embarrassed.

The links between Saddam and Osama are not proven - embarrassed? No siree Bob.

Jessica Lynch's rescue has proven to be so much Hollywood clap-trap, indeed she's been used as a pawn in a propaganda war for Dubya and Co in support of this madness, so y'all can suppor the troops and bring back the Schu, all to the tune of the hit song Operation Iraqi Freedom - but were you embarrassed this was ********? Nay friend, you were damn proud of the acting skills of those Navy Seals, why hell it must've been tough going into that hospital and not ****ing shooting anyone - I mean, that's the American way aint it? Shoot first in case they be shootin' at you? USA! USA!

Are you embarrassed that Don Rumsfeld sold Anthrax to Saddam in the 80's? Nope, water under the bridge.

Are you embarrassed that Ronald Reagan sold missiles to Osama bin Laden? Nope, we was fightin' the Commies and again, the ends justifed the means.

Are you embarrassed that Bush flew the whole bin Laden family out of the US in a private jet in the days following 9-11? No, ... well I can't even ******** a response to that one...

Maybe you have one Curl?

Look at this... The terrorist trash pimps are out in full glory this evening... like nightcrawlers squirming to the surface on a cool moist evening.


--JV

I don't know Charles I'm one of the ones who believes that this is a big put up job Perhaps if you bothered to read my posts and you hadn't appearantly given away your brain as a Christmas present!

Charles my point is the claims that kurds or cousins captured Saddam sound Shonky, actually in the only purpoose was a political capture for Sadam then I think U.S. forces made a mistake by not dropping a granade down the hole ( ie I mean putting Saddam on trial will do you ( the U.S. no good the political or the justice sense. )
I used the idea of shoving a drugged Saddam down a hole to show I waas being ironic. Sorry for the insults charles enjoy your Christmas!

Nah the moaris gave that up Social welfare and Super markets w ere decided to be a much more rewarding excersize. You can safely come here Charles and the pork you are offered will come from a real pig. there are plenty of hard working maori btw. the obbivious difference between here and there is the temp may be 90 degrees. try getting excited by Turkey and plumb pudding in that weather. funnily enough most of our culture refers to snow and meals like that.


Trials won't change peoples minds Charles they only reinforce their beliefs! I' not truying to be rude but if you think trying Saddam will change anything yopu are dreaming.