Witch-King of Angmar

Lord of the Rings Trilogy Forum

Ok, even though I know something about LOTR mythology, I am a little confused when it comes to this dude. I know that he is the lord of the Nazgul, but why is he called by this name?

Spoiler now--

Also, in the movie, he says, 'I will break him (the white wizard, i.e., Gandalf).' I read on the official movie website that 'the wizards match Sauron in power but can use it where their hearts lie etc. etc.' So how can the Witch-King hope to defeat Gandalf?

Also, he says that 'no man can defeat me'. Now, isn't that a bit inconsistent, since Aragorn virtually kicked his and some other nazgul's butt on Weathertop?

Again, I haven't completely read the book. So I hope you guys will keep that in consideration and help me answer these questions.

The witch king can defeat Gandlaf because Gandalf is a man and the legend said that no man would kill him. In the book Gandalf was hesistant to confront the Nazgul king because of this prophecy. Although at the gates of Minas Tirith Gandalf confronted him nonethelss, although they never did battle because the Roharrim arrived.

Well, when Eowen stuck her sword in his head, did he die or not? Also, on the website I read that Gandalf is a wizard, who just has the form of an old man. I don't get it.

Yes he did die, but only because of Merry's stab. Although the movies didn't mention it, the hobbit blades they carried were old and powerful. Merry's stab unraveled the Nazgul's magical mantle, making him vulnerable to Eowen.

And what about his name?

As a Nazgul, he was originally a king from thousands of years ago who was deceived by Sauron and transformed because of the ring Sauron gave him. He was both a king and a sorcerror, and thus called the Witch King.

Angmar, in the Book was a northern kingdom set up to rival the northern kingdom that the ancesters of Aragon ruled, it split from Gondor I can't remembe its name. Eventually the northern kingdom was overthrown by Angmar.

I just have to say that I am so pleased that other people here have read the book and love it as much as I do.


I love that the King of the Ringwraiths was troubled when Eowen revealed that she was a woman. If you all remember correctly the sword that Merry carried came from the Barrow Downs. It was an ancient and powerful sword.

and actually, the website is wrong, a wizard could never ever hope to defeat sauron. even with out the ring, Sauron could have killed gandalf on a whim, had they been fighting one on one.
and the only reason aragorn was able to beat them then was because they had orders from sauron not to use their full power. their full power was reserved for full blown war.
just curious, but what does it sound like when he talks?

He is the Lord of the Nazgul; he is the leader of the Nine. He was a man thousands of years ago in, I believe, the Second Age, but he then was corrupted by Sauron. If you look at the maps in the first pages of the Lord of the Rings books, you will see that he used to dwell in the North in Angmar.

Help me out guys. What site?

Cool. Thanks

well i have yet to see ROTK. i see it on friday. thats why i asked. i don't know what he means. he is right in that they are forbidden to reveal their power. but in the book, it is fairly plainly stated that a wizard is weaker than sauron.

heh..in the book he smashes her shield, which breaks her arm.

I would love to know the answer to that too. The Silmarillion lists them as the Istari. It says that they were messengers sent by the Lords of the West. Help us out Shadow.

It lists them as Maiar. Istari is the name of their order. And check this out, it lists the names of the other two wizards as Alatar and Pallando.

Great find, no?

Dang, I need time to read. Thanks mm.

I can help out there. Yes the wizards are of the race of Maiar. They originated in Aman and came to Middle Earth after the first millenium of the Third Age.

The five wizards that you speak of are the Istari, which means 'wise ones'. They include: Saruman, Gandalf, Radagast, Alatar, and Pallando.

Radagast is mentioned in the books as being good with animals, etc. You can read the books to find out more about him.

Not much is known about Alatar and Pallando. They are Maiar of the Valar Orome. They arrived in Middle Earth dressed in sea-blue, for this reason they are called the Ithryn Luin, or, the 'Blue Wizards.' They journeyed with Saruman to the far east of Middle Earth, but whereas Saruman returned, we know almost nothing of the other two's fate.

Hope this helps...

--LOKIM

Ahhh, the Encyclopedia Arda, excellent site. No I didn't copy it directly from it recently...Most of my information comes from bits and pieces from the Silmarillion, and the 15 other books which Christopher Tolkien put together...What I just posted was a direct quote from some notes I found on the subject, which I probably got part of from the site years ago...

--LOKIM

No...No cheating...But yeah, I should've mentioned that site a long time ago. Before I completed my massive collection of Tolkien books, that site helped a lot in understanding LOTR. I must've printed out about every page...

I may be a nerd, but I do pride myself on knowing a lot about these books. I just love the way Tolkien took the time to really establish a whole world and history, not to mention a whole language! I love his meticulousness(if that's a word) in the whole world of Arda.

Don't know if anyone here knows this but it's pretty interesting: Tolkien first invented the language of Quenya, and then the LOTR books sprung from that...He's definitely one of the best philologists to have ever lived, creating a language isn't easy I suppose ...

--LOKIM

Actually Gandalf is mentioned by name in the Silmarillion. He is called Orlorin and was known as the wisest of the Maiar. This is a very vague reference, you have to read ROTK to put it together, because in that book Gandalf mentions Orlorin as a name that he used to be called.

Olorin actually

--LOKIM

I am not quite sure. I know that Saurman was the eldest and first to come over. Gandalf also did not want to be head of the White Council and Saurman did.

Gandalf did not want any ties of allegiance except to those who sent him to Middle Earth. He wanted to be free to roam and not have to be in any one place on call.

Saruman was also the head of the istari and highest ranked wizard too as well as being very persausive.

Saruman wasn't the most powerful wizard. Gandalf was, but he couldn't reveal his true power. while this power may not have been physichal, it was in his character.

Great thead, in fact great site all together.
I have read the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings, but now I am going to start on the other works of JRR Tolkien.

Would you suggest that I read The Silmarillion first or just start into The Book of Lost Tales 1 (History of Middle-Earth #1) and go through the series?

thnx

§ rock on §

read the silmarillion first, as it includes many of the lost tales.

Of all the books what would be the best order to read them?

thnx shadow stalker, does the silmarillion just sum up all of the other books, or is it the start of the series?


spoiler:

I wish that part of the book that is mentioned in your sig was in the movie. Hoping it will be in the extended version.

rock on

Doesn't the Silmarillion take place many many many years before the Hobbit? And the Hobbit takes place 60 years before Lord of the Rings. Am I correct?

So the best order to read the books would be Silmarillion, Hobbit, Lord of the Rings, am I right? What about the other books, I don't know much about them.

Shadow Stalker isn't on line right now, but I would love to have this question answered. Shadow Stalker does seem to be the expert.

no the sig I was speaking of is when the Witch King rides under the archway that no enemy ever yet had past....

thnx for the info on the Silmarillion. I first saw FOTR and then read the Hobbit, then the LOTR series. Loved em all and now want to read all of the other tales of middle earth. Based on your suggestions I guess I'll read the Silmarillion first and then start on the Book of Lost Tales and go through the series...

Any other good advice would be welcomed..

rock on

ah yes..that part. well it wouldn't be in the movie because the witch king is mounted on his flying beast of death. in the book he only takes to riding on that bad boy once the rohirrim show up.

yeah...i was a bit curious about that too.

The program might have been acting up. I had the same problem yesterday, first the post wasn't accepted and when I posted again - whoops, there were two (I deleted one then).

Sometimes you just need to wait a moment before you attempt to re-post. If you have it post several times, delete it right away. If it does not work, then send a pm to the Moderator explaining why you have duplicate posts and ask the Mod to delte them.

Okay... I've removed two of the three for you, Heather.
Sometimes there is a "hiccup" in the system.

When posting... you hit 'submit' and you need to not press it again.
If it doesn't post... copy what you've written, and refresh the page.
If it doesn't show that your post was put in, try it again.

Geesh, a moderator has already pm me and told me about the problem. Sorry for any inconvience. I didn't do it on purpose. I'll try not to do it again.

Heather... that wasn't an inconvience. I was just explaining that to you, so you would know if it happened again... helping you out.

Heather, the PM I sent you looked like it disappeared. There was no tracking, no record of it. So, that is where the misunderstanding came from, sorry. We are just here to help everyone out.