U.N. Opossed to Death Penalty for the Mass Murderer

Post-9/11 Era Forum

U.N. leader Kofi Annan says that the U.N. is opposed to the death penalty for Saddam.

Are you kiddin' me??!!! Yeah right, that's gonna happen!!!

It's not his call anyway. It's the Iraqi Governments although, they have a ban on the death penalty too, kinda ironic hey? They will probably change it back for this trial.

Some people simply don't believe in the death penalty. That's their personal belief. I personally believe that someone should torture Saddam for 20yrs, then kill him, but my opinion doesn't count either.

In the end, it will be the Iraqis that decide his fate, and so it should be.

You chose the perfect nickname - oneofpeace -

Listen, Saddam was ruthless. For years he terrorized his own people. If he simply didn't like the way you looked he killed you. For a person like this, he deserves the justice he dispensed on others.

Isn't if funny how in the end he was a coward? After all the deaths he ordered, the inhumane tortures of his countrymen, and the raping of women. He and his sons reigned terror for decades, now we should just not kill him or kill him painlessly?

Yes I am for peace, but for people like Saddam peace isn't an option for him because he is not a man of it. Even if he was tortured, he still couldn't repay all the people he inflicted pain and death on.

I know that they will never torture him, but if they did, I would not object one millisecond to it. It's still more mercy than he ever dispensed. He doesn’t deserve better than the thousands he had no mercy on.

I'm probably wasting my time here pointing out facts. but I should point out its Kofi Annans job to oppose the death penalty. The U.N. has adopted several motions opposoing the death penalty including the Universal Declaration on Human Rights which the General Assembly passed ......... without dissent . That means everyone voted for it.

Dragon I don't think it's the job of the UN to convict and punish or give the death penalty. We would need a world organization well versed in laws. A panel of judges from different nations maybe. The UN is there simply to protect.

As for Saddam, why do people seem to believe that because we're against the war we're for Saddam? Even the Arab world who was against the war on it's merits are more than happy Saddam is caught. It's like it's a black and white world for them or something. Either you agree with the war, or you support Saddam and terrorist all over the world.

I don't know maybe it's me and maybe it's not, but I can see why some people are unswayed by anything that's contrary to their opinion regardless of the facts. Their sense of justice has no boundaries and no rules. I'm simply glad our society isn't run like this campaign against Saddam. Many of us on this very board would probably be in jail or worse.

The only right way to deal with this this thing would be to hand mr. Hussein to the international war crimes tribunal (in the Hague) to evaluate what kind of sentence he deserves. To me it is clear that any court in Iraq can not be completely impartial (because of the American influence). For those who say that "the Iraqis themselves can decide the fate of Saddam" I can only say that do not be n a i v e.

Death sentence can not be accepted in modern world, not in any case. All civilized nations here in Europe have illegalized its use. For mr. Hussein, a murderer he undeniably is, should also be allowed a trial in which he would not be threatened by this inhuman sentence.

As international law and equality of justice should be world wide, everybody could think how this case is different from the case of former Yugoslavian president, Slobodan Milosevic, who was also handed over to the IWCT in the Hague. Why not do the same?...

It does not matter whether Saddam is trialed in Hague or in Iraq or if he is sentenced to death or not. He is a criminal, he is arrested, and main thing now is bringing stability to Iraq.

"To me it is clear that any court in Iraq can not be completely impartial (because of the American influence)."

So??? Are you afraid he is going to get an extra year in prison because of it?

Really tell me Charles when did Iraq get an elected Government? the flaw in your arguement is the Iraqi council owe their jobs to Bush and Bremer not Iraqis or to a constitution. and as for theit Liberation they are still under the control of a foreign power.

Years in solitary confinement is worse than death any day. People are getting the easy way out with the death penalty. But who cares about that - as long as we're into controversy i might as well introduce myself...

After Saddam is tried for war crimes are we finally going to move onto Bush and try him for his crimes? This war, and i'm sure it's been said dozens, if not hundreds of times before, was fought to take the American mind off the fact the US is to moronic to nab Osama Bin Laden. I can't wait till the day Amercian people realize they were screwed by their own government. You are presently the core of corruption in todays society. America will solely be responsible for the end of the world. George Bush does not care about any of his people. He is a complete idiot - which is easily revealed with only a glance into his blank, blank eyes. He has no clue how to run a country successfully. He has not made one call since he stepped into office, but instead relies on his advisors and the off key suggestions to walk him through everyday life in the "office". One sad truth is that not many Americans realize they are an enemy in the eyes of the vast majority of people worldwide.

I must say, that i truely don't dislike any American individual per se. In fact Americans can be very nice people. I do, however, largely disagree with their government. Throughout history it has constantly been revealed how American presidents have lied to, and screwed over their people Reagan, Nixon and Clinton to name the most popular recent few. Now we see Mr. Bush riding on the heels of his papa staring intently with the innocence and mind mass of a child - believe me poor folk it is only a matter of time before we see an act deciet here. In fact, the rest of the world has already seen it and so have you... The only difference is the rest of the world has already been informed and your government is sheilding you like it has in days gone by.

You know i've always wanted to have a serious debate with an american. Not just any american but an intelligent american. One that is hot but doesn't lead to hate. I would love to see how some people react on a more personal level.

I sadly remember as a child thinking the US Army was the greatest thing. It bothered me a great deal when i reflected on this and compared to what i've learned as an adult. I see the US Army doing what it is supposed to be fighting against. I see the US complaining about a couple thousand people dying in the trade center bombing(god bless them) but not making mention of the thousands and thousands they've killed this year and in years gone past... Let alone the thousands that are being killed each and every day by their own people at home.

I sit here every day and say "I wish the world could be a better, safer place" - Well here's a shocker - it never, ever will be again.

Most people don't think about it. But it is sad fact that among intellectuals it is well known that realistically there is not a whole lot of time left for us here. You may not see it in your lifetime but it is very likely your kids will. The world has slipped violently in the last 25 years - if it continued it's current trend we'd all be dead within another 25. There is no turning things around. This is simply not feasable. In a world of over a trillion people it is impossible to bring order and peace like there once was - not to mention the irreverisable destruction we've done to the earth and it's atmosphere.

Hi I'm Joe - nice to meet you all!!

Wow only, like 80 spelling mistakes!

Dragon so what you are saying is americans should have given the power to Iraqis as soon as combat has finished? And reconstruction efforts US puts in Iraq are not needed? I just can't follow your argument, or understand your stance on this question.

A simple question: is Iraq better off without Saddam? Yes/no

Hey - and before anyone gets me wrong i just want to say that i am not an enemy - i just enjoy stirring things up from time to time!

Juko: Yes (oh i really want to go deeper on this)

J: was the war worth it? Explain your answer.

So what if Iraq is currently under control of a foreign power, ie. USA? Are there any other ways to stabilize the country without some period of occupation?

You understand that current occupation is not going to last long, don't you?

@contro

Juko,

That's a loaded question but i think i can hit on it gently. I think the war drew some pleasant conclusions. I think the war drew some tragic and unfortunate conclusions. Far too many people lost their lives, be it coalition or iraqi/resistance fighters.

I would like to think on a more covert "American style" level. I see in all the movies what i would normally assume to be an American army stereotype. The slick, undetected American agents who can accomplish any mission without the slightest bit of trouble. I could imagine CIA pulling off a much more effective mission. The fact is, the CIA is capable of almost anything and for those who don't know it just believe it. They are already more a part of your everyday lives than you realize. Now what if, just what if the US took out Saddam in the years previous with their intelligence. If Saddam has always posed such a threat why didn't someone sneak in and get him sooner. Some of us know that if asked, it could have been done with ease. This, perhaps, was not feasable in terms of time at present but i truely believe it did not have to come to what it did. Based on history of US supported overthrows i am surprised we didn't see a very slick, hollywood style act of deceit to get Saddam out of the picture.

One thing i do like about the whole conflict is that it is FULL of conspiracy theories. Everything is far too open for judgement and some of the information is shockingly incredible and contradictory. One thing i always take into account while reading news is bias of a nation. The US typically believes a US news source. An Arab typically believes his. Who's to say, sometimes, who is truthful in a case of two contrasting stories when each has something to support their story.

I will say that one thing i have heard in the past 3 days has said mouthfuls to me. That is...

I recall back during UN inspections the incident of Saddam not allowing entrance to his presidential palaces. He simply supported his actions with the intention of protecting the privacy of his home and said he simply wanted to protect his home. Ok - we know this from the interviews we all saw. We were lead to believe that he was lying or hiding something from us specifically because of these actions. As a result of his defiance the US promptly invades and in a matter of weeks has control of Iraq. The US seaches painstakingly through Saddam's palaces and surpisingly, but not entirely, they find nothing. Not even evidence would exist at these locations. Therefore we can safely say there was no evidence of WMD at his palaces. Does this mean Saddam was telling the truth? If so, does this mean it perhaps was a bad idea to invade so quickly and harshly. If we came out of this war without ever finding WMD would THAT make the war worthwhile? Will it make you feel comfortable knowing that the reason we went to war was actually proven hollow? Will it justify the deaths suffered at the cost of a quickly planned war rather than the less likely possibly of coalition deaths suffered during a carefully planned multinational, perhaps secretive takeover. I am glad the US got Saddam. Do i think he should die? Honestly, i'm not a death penalty guy. But i think he should pay a price for what he has done. I am happy for the Iraqi people.

I am very, very neutral, almost opposed to a war crimes tribunal so quickly formed at this point in time. I am very vocal about the criminals in this war and i do NOT for one moment think that the coalition doesn't have a few people that need to be tried. Being a news freak i read several sources from several parts of the globe. Some of the things in eastern news are pretty outrageous and have to make you wonder. I will get it out now so it's no secret that while i have no problem with an american individual i DO have a serious problem with where i think your leadership is taking you. I wish the best for the American people and at this time i do not think the best is at the helm. A better America is crucial for a better world. A better America is not a fighting machine always at war. Mainly because while there is war there will never be peace. I wish for peace but i'm not naive enough to think it will ever happen. What a sad thought.

I wonder how do they manage to fill their brains with so much BS?

That WAS funny charles. And guys, seriously - i'm not here to spout anything off. I said i'm not here to make enemies. I'm just here to stir things up. Perhaps some of what i say is true. Perhaps some is not. Don't take anything personally.

And yes, a trillion!!

















almost 6.5 billion

I think the war drew some tragic and unfortunate conclusions. Far too many people lost their lives, be it coalition or iraqi/resistance fighters.

I agree.

I would like to think on a more covert "American style" level. I see in all the movies what i would normally assume to be an American army stereotype. The slick, undetected American agents who can accomplish any mission without the slightest bit of trouble. I could imagine CIA pulling off a much more effective mission. The fact is, the CIA is capable of almost anything and for those who don't know it just believe it.

I know.

They are already more a part of your everyday lives than you realize.

Oh come on, where'd you get that from?

Now what if, just what if the US took out Saddam in the years previous with their intelligence. If Saddam has always posed such a threat why didn't someone sneak in and get him sooner. Some of us know that if asked, it could have been done with ease. This, perhaps, was not feasable in terms of time at present but i truely believe it did not have to come to what it did. Based on history of US supported overthrows i am surprised we didn't see a very slick, hollywood style act of deceit to get Saddam out of the picture.

Using all the intelligence and cruise missiles USA missed twice trying to kill Saddam. His personal security is one of world's strongest, he didnt disclose his location to ANYBODY except for CLOSEST people like his sons. Sending CIA agents to take him out would most probably be a fail.

One thing i do like about the whole conflict is that it is FULL of conspiracy theories. Everything is far too open for judgement and some of the information is shockingly incredible and contradictory. One thing i always take into account while reading news is bias of a nation. The US typically believes a US news source. An Arab typically believes his. Who's to say, sometimes, who is truthful in a case of two contrasting stories when each has something to support their story.

Arab's story is US is satan because it supports Israel. These people dont know that not only US but the whole West used Israel to establish western influence in the region, primarily colonial Britain and France. Yes, exactly the same France opposed to this war today. These people have no idea that out of all the western countries US has the strongest anti-colonian principles, which are spread thru nation's mind.

I will say that one thing i have heard in the past 3 days has said mouthfuls to me. That is...

I recall back during UN inspections the incident of Saddam not allowing entrance to his presidential palaces. He simply supported his actions with the intention of protecting the privacy of his home and said he simply wanted to protect his home. Ok - we know this from the interviews we all saw. We were lead to believe that he was lying or hiding something from us specifically because of these actions. As a result of his defiance the US promptly invades and in a matter of weeks has control of Iraq. The US seaches painstakingly through Saddam's palaces and surpisingly, but not entirely, they find nothing. Not even evidence would exist at these locations. Therefore we can safely say there was no evidence of WMD at his palaces.

No we can't. How do you know that he didn't move them from there? I won't be surprised if we dont find any WMDs in Iraq, because it's possible that Saddam destroyed them, handed them to some 3rd party, etc. Bottom line is, we don't know and all we can do now is search the country in an attempt to find them, not guaranteed to success at all.

Does this mean Saddam was telling the truth?

Maybe, but most probably not.

If so, does this mean it perhaps was a bad idea to invade so quickly and harshly. If we came out of this war without ever finding WMD would THAT make the war worthwhile?

YES! WMDs are one of many other reasons, both stated officially and not, to invade Iraq and make it democratic.

Will it make you feel comfortable knowing that the reason we went to war was actually proven hollow?

Really i dont care.

Will it justify the deaths suffered at the cost of a quickly planned war rather than the less likely possibly of coalition deaths suffered during a carefully planned multinational, perhaps secretive takeover.

What coalition? France and Germany? It's them who refused to do the 100% right thing, overthrow a dictator OBVIOUSLY guilty of so many crimes one can only imagine of.

Some of the things in eastern news are pretty outrageous and have to make you wonder.

I have read enough of those to understand that they are not even worth reading them, are full of conspiracy and are not trustworthy.

I will get it out now so it's no secret that while i have no problem with an american individual i DO have a serious problem with where i think your leadership is taking you.

Clarify, please.

A better America is crucial for a better world.

That's what i have said numerously.

A better America is not a fighting machine always at war. Mainly because while there is war there will never be peace. I wish for peace but i'm not naive enough to think it will ever happen. What a sad thought.

This war is not like conventional confrontation of 2 military machines in an attempt to gain control of territories/resources/nation etc. This war is an operation on ousting a dictator and bringing him to justice, liberating 25 million people who were starving prior to the invasion, and getting a base in the region from where we - civilized world - can spread our values - dont mistake with american culture or religion.

nice responses! - and i've wasted all my good stuff!

Hmmm let me think...

Regarding the "tragic and unfortunate conclusions": US did a great job at lowering casualties and using bribery to reduce fighting, it's simply impossible to fight a war with NO casualties. Even it if was a UN-led coalition invading Iraq.

Sadam should not die fast. Convict him then string him up on a post and then let anyone who wants to walk by and punch him one time where ever they want to. He will die in time but he will get to know the hell he inflicted upon his citizens.