| Posted by: HECK! | | He's captured. Now, he will face a trial. Should the verdict be death? I say yes.
-HECK! | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: USA1 | | What ever the Iraqis feel is justified, is fine with me. He should not be tried by any other government body. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: oneofpeace | | He really doesn't deserve to live, although I agree that Iraq should handle his punishment. If the US does it, I'm sure this will add fuel to the already angry Arabs all over the world.
But should they fail to do the right thing, then I think the UN first should step in and make sure. But I believe they will execute him. Far more humane might I add than he's executed his countrymen. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Sayzak | | Saddam should have red targets tattooed all over his body, and he should be dropped in the middle of a large fenced in feild somewhere in Iraq where the Iraqi's can have some aiming practice.
And Bin Laden -- when we get you -- you should be dropped in the middle of time square. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Charles | |
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sayzak21 said this in post #4 :
Saddam should have red targets tattooed all over his body, and he should be dropped in the middle of a large fenced in feild somewhere in Iraq where the Iraqi's can have some aiming practice.
And Bin Laden -- when we get you -- you should be dropped in the middle of time square. |
The trial should be run by the Iraqi's, with coalition and UN in support. LEt it be public. Let the Iraqi's see and hear everything about Saddam. Let them work through it.
It should be done in a rock solid and respectful way. I think the outcome is pretty clear.
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| Posted by: Curley Joe | |
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HECK said this in post #1 :
He's captured. Now, he will face a trial. Should the verdict be death? I say yes.
-HECK! |
The sentence of death is a certainty. It will either be a hanging or execution by firing squad. 
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| Posted by: Lawless | | The Iraqi's should be the governing people that handle this, and decide what punishment this sick excuse of a human scum deserves. Personally, he deserves death, but nothing quick. He's a sick man, who killed thousands!!! Let those families that suffered under him make the choice. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Charles | |
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Curley Joe said this in post #6 :
The sentence of death is a certainty. It will either be a hanging or execution by firing squad. |
In the middle east they get rid of especially nasty types by severing head by repeated blows of extremely dull sword...
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| Posted by: Lawless | | Yes... and they've been known to decapitate the person and roll the head through the town, and the people will "play soccer" so to speak. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: JY_French | | Even though I am opposed to death penalty for many reasons, I won't cry over Saddam if that is the sentence the Iraqis have in store for him. He deserves it as many times he has killed people. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: keremiko | | Tolerance, human rights or even animal rights must not be respected to treat monsters.
Therefore, however inhumane this may sound--and that's why nobody will take this decision-- I think he should be kept alive and systematically tortured by the survivors of his victims for the rest of his life. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: MrJukoVette | |
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| Tolerance, human rights or even animal rights must not be respected to treat monsters. |
You didn't bother to reply in our thread <REMOVED>.
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| Posted by: keremiko | |
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MrJukoVette said this in post #12 :
You didn't bother to reply in our thread <REMOVED>. |
No worries!
I printed it, read it and WILL reply.
Holiday season is the busiest season because of one particular client (toy store) I have.
I am hoping to reply you by the end of the week.
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| Posted by: frenchfries | | Alive, Saddam is a danger: some guys might take hostages and negotiate his release. But dead, he might become a martyr.
The best way is to let Iraqis judge. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Coogee Beach | | How about we put him in a glass box and pump it full of chemical and biological weapons?! - I mean, the country's full of the stuff aint it? It must be - cos ol' Dubya said it was.
Heck!, we know they're there! - and how does we know? We knows cos The USA sold em to him! Yee-hah, we gonna have us a dictator lynchin, except instead of a rope or 'lectric chair or a ***** little lethal 'jection, we gonna nerve gas that bastard, and we gonna use good ol' USA-built lethal nerve gas to do it.
Goddam makes you PROUD to be 'merican, a country that can make that kind of high-tech lethal killing weaponry that can get in a man's immune system and kill that bastard from da inside. That's some heavy-duty shee-hite man!
However, if the ***** UN or left-wing liberal mo-fo's kick up a stink, why we could do it the humane way, and ship one of Dubya's electric chairs over, the ones he's used a hundred-odd of HIS fellow Americans.
Hang on - does they now do it by lethal injection in Texas? Whatever we do - let's kill the bastard. Cos if we don't ... then how we gonna be able to take that high moral ground, and say, yeah, we's killin' Saddam but we doin' it cos he killed a lotta people - he's a bad man.
Do we care we sold him the weapons? No sah.
Does we care we kill people in dis country too? No siree bob. We is right, God is on OUR side and that aint nothin like no how what them Islamics who think God is on THEIR side - those fools is mistaken, boy, we are the ones who are right, we are ALLOWED to kill people, we made the damn weapons, we sold him to damn Saddam and we gonna use 'em how we see fit.
God bless America and god bless those weapons we made and sold to Saddam. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: USA1 | | Maybe we should just give him to Australia and they can feed him for the rest of his life.
I hear it's a great place to send criminals. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: MrJukoVette | | keremiko LOL ok if you had to print it to in order to read it - take your time I am not rushing you.
I cut it down to 22KB btw. Let's see how much fantasy have you got  | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: jvstr | | As my grandfather would say.... they ought to get Saddam, hang him by his balls, shove gravel up his a*ss... and keep him there until his nut bag pops. Of course, he was speaking Hitler at the time if they had caught him alive.
--JV | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Coogee Beach | |
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USA1 said this in post #16 :
Maybe we should just give him to Australia and they can feed him for the rest of his life.
I hear it's a great place to send criminals. |
It's a great place period, but it doesn't mean our government isn't up Dubya's arse. Indeed they've come out in support of one of Dubya's policy pillars - death - in this case death to Saddam, couched in terms of "justice however the Iraqis see fit", knowing full well Iraqi justice is about vengeance and be-heading evil-doers in football stadiums, much like Dubya's own killing operatus in Texas there, where if you kill someone you get killed yourself in return. Kill the evil-doers! They are evil for they kill. Let us kill them in return, to show them that killing is wrong ... doesn't add up, for mine.
Because for mine: Killing is wrong, period. Doesn't matter if it's state-sanctioned, human life is sacrosanct - and that's Saddam, Osama, anyone. These pricks don't deserve to live which is precisely why we should let them. If you can show mercy to even the worst most barberous arseholes then we show we're better people, we send a message to our future generations that killing is wrong.
Now I know these are rosey sentiments and the world isn't a nice place a lot of the time, and there are ****ers out there who'll kill you quick as look at ya, but to punish killing with killing is ancient eye-for-an-eye old testament stuff, and shouldn't be relevant in a world we want to to create for future generations.
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| Posted by: Charles | | Well, a couple of things. I'm not sure if killing Saddam wouldn't be better for him. Imagine him in some jail cell for the rest of his life...
But the idea isn't to make him suffer. Its not about him. Luckily I've never been traumatized to such an extent as having my family killed, or been tortured, etc., as Saddam caused. But maybe the victims want to put it behind them and move on. Its not such a bad thing. If it eases a bit of their pain knowing that Saddam isn't in a comfy cell getting 3 squares after their lives have been ruined, maybe they should get it.
In general, I would not support death penalty for straight deterence or revenge purposes. For me it comes down to nuts and bolts resources. Why spend 100K/year to keep some hideous murderer/rapist alive when that money could be spent on better things? That person made the wrong choices. Too bad for them... | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: JY_French | | Charles,
I view the end of your last comment as typically american - I mean as a pragmatic one. I think that we have to view such things from another point of view (you could label it as "typically European" all the same). I believe we, human beings, share the same characteristics with our ancestors thousands of years ago. Intrinsically not worst, but not better. What makes a difference is that we have become, because of our civilizations, technology, culture, ..., by ourselves, to sum it up, our own factor of evolution.
Therefore, the choice is in our hands regarding death penalty concerns. Should we keep on seeking for revenge - that's what society does when someone is striken by this ultimate punishment - or acknowledge that the murderer in front of us have the same genetic material that us...? Death penalty is a sly torture - on cover of humanity, it is labeled as soft killing respectuous of the human person, but it remains of unmoral crualty just like it was 2000 years ago. Killing anyone is not worthy of a so-called civilized society. Period. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Curley Joe | |
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jvstr said this in post #18 :
As my grandfather would say.... they ought to get Saddam, hang him by his balls, shove gravel up his a*ss... and keep him there until his nut bag pops. Of course, he was speaking Hitler at the time if they had caught him alive.
--JV |
Your grandfather had/has the right idea..... 
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| Posted by: USA1 | | JY,
You could say the same for terrorism and any kind of serial killer. The point is, is that it is unacceptable behavior in today's society. Unfortunately we can't change the genetic makeup of mankind but we can persuade otherwise. That persuasion comes in many forms, ideally through education. But education without recognition of consequences doesn't work. In many parts of the world including the U.S., criminals have more rights than the victims.
To simply martyr the individual or allow him his fame and continuing education while in detention doesn't deter, it only shows then they can do what ever they want and get away with murder.
While I do agree with education to prevent violence and drug abuse, there still has to be consequences for their actions. To kill is the ultimate crime and punishment should not be equal to the criminal who has embezzled millions from his company or the person who killed through non-premeditated behavior like drunken driving.
If you systematically plan to take an individuals life without regards to human life or consequences, what good are you to humanity. Religion should not be part of this reasoning although most law is based on morality through religious history.
A complete disregard for human life should not be condoned by coddling the criminal. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Charles | |
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JY_French said this in post #21 :
Charles,
I view the end of your last comment as typically american - I mean as a pragmatic one. I think that we have to view such things from another point of view (you could label it as "typically European" all the same). I believe we, human beings, share the same characteristics with our ancestors thousands of years ago. Intrinsically not worst, but not better. What makes a difference is that we have become, because of our civilizations, technology, culture, ..., by ourselves, to sum it up, our own factor of evolution.
Therefore, the choice is in our hands regarding death penalty concerns. Should we keep on seeking for revenge - that's what society does when someone is striken by this ultimate punishment - or acknowledge that the murderer in front of us have the same genetic material that us...? Death penalty is a sly torture - on cover of humanity, it is labeled as soft killing respectuous of the human person, but it remains of unmoral crualty just like it was 2000 years ago. Killing anyone is not worthy of a so-called civilized society. Period. |
What you call pragmatism I call reality. All people and all societies have ways of establishing myths and world views that may create some preceived comfort level, but in fact do not represent reality.
The fact is the world has limities resources. Countries have limited resources. There are more good causes that need resources than there are resources. If you deliberately expend critical resources on things that provide no positive return, then it could be argued that you are acting immorally.
Keeping a serial killer clothed, fed, comfortable, with nice library, exercise room, tv and dvd player, etc., costs a lot of money. LEt's say 100K/year.
At the same time you have innocent kids who aren't getting a proper education, food, clothiong, and protection. These innocent kids may grow up to be not so innocent. And the cycle continues. Why not expend resources to protect and promote the innocent? Is that not moral? Some think moral decisions are easy and obvious: killing is bad, don't kill anyone. But what if killing one could save a thousand? Or what if killing one useless piece of garbage would allow 10 underprivileged but good kids the chance at a real productive future?
Moral decisions, by their true nature, are necessarily difficult, not obvious, and contentious. Morality is the hard road - not the easy road.
"Everyone is equal. Everyone should live. Everyone should be happy and have a DVD player."
Its a bunch of crap. Society must regulate its constituents and its resources. We all agree with this. Some societies have evolved with accountabilty, checks and balances, etc. to mitigate the risks of power, but it seems we have gotton to the point where we deny power, and our hard moral obligations to regulate.
Our avoid tough decisions "morality" causes more suffering in the end.
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| Posted by: JY_French | |
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Charles said this in post #24 :
What you call pragmatism I call reality. All people and all societies have ways of establishing myths and world views that may create some preceived comfort level, but in fact do not represent reality.
The fact is the world has limities resources. Countries have limited resources. There are more good causes that need resources than there are resources. If you deliberately expend critical resources on things that provide no positive return, then it could be argued that you are acting immorally.
Keeping a serial killer clothed, fed, comfortable, with nice library, exercise room, tv and dvd player, etc., costs a lot of money. LEt's say 100K/year.
At the same time you have innocent kids who aren't getting a proper education, food, clothiong, and protection. These innocent kids may grow up to be not so innocent. And the cycle continues. Why not expend resources to protect and promote the innocent? Is that not moral? Some think moral decisions are easy and obvious: killing is bad, don't kill anyone. But what if killing one could save a thousand? Or what if killing one useless piece of garbage would allow 10 underprivileged but good kids the chance at a real productive future?
Moral decisions, by their true nature, are necessarily difficult, not obvious, and contentious. Morality is the hard road - not the easy road.
"Everyone is equal. Everyone should live. Everyone should be happy and have a DVD player."
Its a bunch of crap. Society must regulate its constituents and its resources. We all agree with this. Some societies have evolved with accountabilty, checks and balances, etc. to mitigate the risks of power, but it seems we have gotton to the point where we deny power, and our hard moral obligations to regulate.
Our avoid tough decisions "morality" causes more suffering in the end. |
I see your points Charles, and they are valid ones. As all controversial topics, everybody comes with valuable arguments to put forward, and that's what makes the topic controversial.
Well. Let's have a closer look to the details. I will try to be factual and "pragmatic" to keep in line with you.
"Coddling the criminals".
It's in human nature to seek for freedom. If you have some material comfort but are jailed for the rest of your life ... great deal ... some may be satisfied with this, but anyway, it does not appear to be a comfortable situation to me.
"Jailed criminals cost a lot to the society, while this money could be used for better purposes - for example preventing subsequent crimes by younger folks".
True. But I don't see why the criminals' possessions, if any, could not be employed to compensate the cost. I don't see why they should not have to work in jail to reimburse the administration for the cost of their imprisonment. In such a way, as for many other things, money issues of this kind are detterent for thugs and murderers.
You have of course insane people unable to fulfill the requirements to pay back financially the society, I agree. But are they the majority ? I doubt so.
"Death penalty is detterent to prevent crimes".
Oh yeah, why are so many folks condemned to death in some places in the US or elsewhere ? Are the people there particularly criminal ?
I came across interesting publications on this topic a few years ago. It just proved that death penalty was not efficient in reducing crime rates, in comparison with judicial system from which it was banned. I did not search for, but I reckon some data is available on this issue through the net.
"It is politically risky to ban death penalty, since it is viewed positively by the public opinion".
Death penalty has been banned more than twenty years ago in France. At that time the majority of the people were pro-death penalty (60 % if I recall). This banishment needed political courage based on intimate conviction. This is positively viewed today by most people in Europe. Opinions, when facing moral concerns, can change and be educated.
"Murderers deserve to be killed. Lex talionis."
OK. A governor (State of Illinois ?) stated that many people in death rows were innocents, or that, at least, their culpability has not been established - judicial system in the USA is founded on accusation proceedings by the administration. No money, poor defense. He raised a moratory to delay executions. People start to see that there is a huge problem, all the more that the sentence, once executed, can not be corrected.
Then, there are the moral issues, as we first started to post about. But that is on moral issues that we have controversial discussions on this board in general ... So it is up between you and your human being's conscience.
To conclude: Saddam is among the eviliest criminals this Earth has ever hold. I would personally put him in jail for the rest of his life, with no redemption possible. He should have to work in jail to pay for the cost of his imprisonment, and his work should have some utility to the relief of the millions he abused, raped, tortured. He should be visited by schoolmates so that the youngters are educated about his crimes ... and the foreign lives it has costed to reach this situation and give them their comfort.
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Post-9/11 Era Forum: Execute Saddam...?
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