Teacher tells class of 6 year olds that Santa is not real

Holidays Forum

I know that it falls under Holidays, but I believe this is a better topic for the General area to discuss.

MIRAMAR, Florida (AP) -- Mrs. Jolly thinks her son's teacher is a Grinch.

Sandra Jolly said her 6-year-old son's Christmas was spoiled when his teacher told the first-grade class Monday that "Santa Claus is make-believe."

"He had this sad, lost puppy dog look on his face. This unhappy, empty look," Jolly said. "He said his teacher informed the entire class that Santa is make-believe."

D.J.'s teacher, Geneta Codner, was reading a story about the Tooth Fairy when the class started discussing what was real and what was not, said district spokesman Joe Donzelli.

When the subject of Santa came up, the teacher started questioning parts of his story -- How could a fat jolly man fit down a chimney? How could reindeer fly around the world in one night? -- and told the children that wasn't possible.

"It's all been blown out of proportion," Codner said. "I'm sorry (parents) think I meant it that way. We were just having a discussion. I don't know where all this hurt came from."

The teacher said none of the children acted upset or sad during class.

But Jolly and others disagree.

"How do you destroy a 6-year-old like that?" said Pam Sturt, whose son Bradley is in D.J.'s class.

Donzelli said the school's principal "had a real stern conversation" with the teacher. But there will be no written reprimand because she did not violate any school district policy.

"We have no Santa clause," Donzelli said. "We would think that teachers would use better judgment."

Well, I applaud the teacher. I think that it is sad that our society has to make up a fictitional character in order for children to enjoy christmas. My parents never told me there was a Santa Claus I learned it when i started going to school and other kids were talking about it. Besides, if it comes up in the conversation and a kid asks whether there is a Santa or not what are you going to do, continue the lie? I was perfectly happy with the presents at christmas whether they came from Santa or not. If kids know that they come from their parents wouldn't that reinforce morals that we are trying to teach them like giving and sharing? We tell kids not to lie but when they turn 9-10 they find out that their favorite holiday was one big lie. I know that Christmas is supposed to be about Jesus and stuff but when your a kid you care about the presents not the birth of Jesus (providing thats the religion of the family). I think that adults should stop being hypocrits and tell them the truth.


P.S. Thanks Fuscia for starting this thread

I have to disagree Frank. I think kids believing in Santa Claus is a special right of passage that parents, if they choose, can share with their children. It's been tradition for decades. I don't think it was the teacher's place to tell 6 year olds that there is no Santa Claus, belief in Santa should be a parent's choice. I would've just told my kid that the teacher only said that because she was a bad girl and didn't get any presents.

I've always thought that Santa was the stupidest thing in the world... To me, as a kid, it made no sense, and I was very vocal in school about it. Back in school, I was the kid who would tell all the other kids that they were dumb if they believed in Santa. Most of the kids believed in him (except for the Jewish kids, who laughed at every Santa believer with me...), and they got mad at me for telling the TRUTH... Hmmph... I never cared about Santa, all I wanted were good presents and even better food! And eventually, as I got older, I wanted the time we spent around the stereo, listening to Christmas and holiday records. For me, that's the real beauty and magic of the holiday. Family, food, relaxation, music, food, food, food......

I'd better stop before I get depressed that I won't be spending the holidays with my family this year...

Screw Santa!

I don't think that teacher was right to tell those little children that there is no Santa. She should understand the mindset of 6 year olds. "Hey kids. I know you and trust me, so Merry Christmas. There is no Santa". Some teacher. Apparently she is just mean spirited. It is for the parents to decide if their kids believe in Santa and when they should be told the truth. The teacher was way out of line. There was no need for her to break those kids hearts.

Chel, I agree with you about Santa being a rite of passage type of thing.

As for those of you who do not like the whole Santa thing. That is your choice. However, I believe it is mean spirited to try to deny it for others.

Exactly, whether stupid or not, the teacher has no right to take the fantasy away from them.

there was a guy on the radio in my area who is listened to by kids and he said that santa was not real... lets just say he was not liked too much by parents. i stoped believing in santa when i heard my parents dropping the gifts down the stairs by accident at night to put them under the tree i think i was like 5 or 6.

I applaud the teacher too. I'm sick of the lying going on this world. It's about time someone started speaking the truth to kids.

I'm also sick of parents wanting the rest of the world to aid them in carrying on their lies to the children. You want to tell them lies, that's your business. Don't expect the world to go along with your lies.

There's a difference between not aiding lies and blatently destroying a fantasy.

its not like its the matrix where they are lied to their entire life. the whole santa thing is just to make them happy for just a few years of their life. it does no harm to the kids. when they do find out there is no santa they learn to except it.

I agree with Grant and Chodder. Telling the children he is not real is a very cruel lesson. It does no harm to let them believe. Most adults look back on the Santa years with fond memories.

Im not saying that children shouldn't have a good time at Christmas. I am saying that they don't need Santa to do it. I agree with Sierra Christmas should be about family. I also think that destroying a childs belief in Santa is a mean spirited thing to do. But, im confident that the teacher didn't just come right out and say that there isn't a Santa. I bet that a kid asked her about it and she told the truth (something we all should do more often).I personally don't buy the Jesus thing but if thats why we have a christmas then doesn't Santa kinda take away from that point. I also believe that Santa was created so that companys would sell more toys. We all have our own ideas but we shouldn't lie, thats were I draw the line. Fight the power...lol

Wow, it looks like we're about dead even on the Santa issue.

The earliest legend of Saint Nicholas reaches back to Asia Minor in the 4th century. Born in Patara, a seaport, St. Nicholas traveled to Egypt and Palestine as a young man. Wherever he traveled, his extraordinary kindness, and his practice of giving gifts to needy children made him a hero to the people.

Much later, the name "St. Nicholas" splintered into many variations among Protestant churches in Europe. Then, with the colonization of America, religious and secular images joined in recognizing "Santa Claus," who symbolized the spirit of giving.

The teacher probably didn't just come out and say there is no Santa. She probably just didn't correct a child who questioned it. I don't think she did anything wrong.

Well, this is a lie, right? It might be the intention of some of those who propgate the lie, to give children fantasy, which might be fine for some. I was more interested in being told the truth, and when my teacher got upset with me and told me that Santa was REAL and he really lived in the North Pole, AND that he's always lived there, from the day Jesus was born... Well, first I laughed at her, and then i was pissed when I had to spend some time in the principal's office for being a 'disturbance'. In the words and mannerism of the Architect of the Matrix, Puh-Leeezzze.....

My daugher will not ever pose with Santa if it were up to just me (but, being a father, it really isn't, is it... Her mother wants her to do it, despite my vehement and sound reasoning against it...). Since it's not solely up to me, she'll probably end up posing once or twice in her life... Which I think sucks...

Does anyone remember when they found out that Santa wasn't real? It was quite a shock for me, I caught Mum taking presents out of her wardrobe and putting them under the tree in the middle of the night.

She told me there was no Santa. I was devastated, I had made Santa a card and left him a glass of milk and stuff. Mum let me drink the milk and put me back to bed.

I had forgotten all about it by the morning when I got to open my presents and by the time Christmas came around next year I was over it.

i just never believed in him. my parents were terrible at lying and i was too smart to be fooled. my dad told me santa came down the chimney, but we didnt have one. then he said we had a secret door that was hidden in the wall...

So we should lie to the children early so they can get used to it ? Come on I think the teacher did nothing wrong.

(P.S. When are we going to tell our children about god ?)

The concept behind the Santa belief is not to teach children how to LIE. Come on! The spirit of St. Nicholas is about giving. Giving gifts, giving to charity. It's a special thing to share with children. I have fond memories of it and so do my siblings. It's a tradition for many families around the world. Does that make it WRONG?

Same thing with the concept of God, the decisions on what the child should be brought up believing are the responsibilities of the parents. Whether it's Santa, the tooth fairy or God.

No that does not make it wrong at all. I just think that parents could as easly bring up there child believing in giving gifts, charity, and helping others down on there luck but they would not have to throw in Santa into the picture.

The concept of Santa is deception. If children see that from there parents it highly likely that the child could see deception as ok.

Fuscia had it right, this discussion has nothing to do with whether or not kids should be allowed to believe in Santa, the crux of this issue is whether or not the teacher had any right to undercut the parents and what they teach their kids.
If parents wanted their kids to know Santa was make believe, they would have told them. All the teacher did was rob them of some magical years of youth that are completely harmless.
If we are gonna start telling kids the truth about everything, why not tell dumb kids that they'll never be doctors, or ugly kids that they'll never be models, or short white kids that they'll never be basketball players (sorry John Stockton). My point is we deceive kids all the time because we want them to be happy, so if i lie to my kids and say that "if they work hard they can be whatever they want to be," i don't want some teacher telling them otherwise.

I don't expect any teacher to lie, she didn't have to deal with the subject at all.
What if the teacher had a strong conviction that God wasn't real, and told that to the kids? Or what if she said that the story of Jonah is impossible, or the creation story does'nt make any sense? Those are subjects she shouldn't even touch on, she needs to teach kids to read, to write, and to add and subtract, that's it.
Obviously at some point kids will have to have the freedom to hear all views and determine for themselves where they stand. However, at young ages they are extremely impressionable and succeptable to indoctrinization by authority figures on personal crusades. Let the parents instill the values they want, and let the teachers teach what they're supposed to.

The teacher robbed the children of magical years ??? Why can't the years be just as magical ? Enjoying them with parents, family, and cheer just the same. There can still be a christmas tree, presents, the anticipation of christmas day and what toys will be under the tree for them but why does a mystical Santa have to bring the toys.

Undercutting the parent, no the teacher did no such thing.

The teacher did not Instill any values in the children. Authority figures on personal crusades... so now this teacher was out to get the parents and children by saying that Santa was not real


Here is a follow up from that story:

http://www.nbc6.net/holidays/1835495/detail.html

MIRAMAR, Fla. -- A group of kindergarteners will get a special visit from Santa Claus tomorrow. His mission: to prove that he does, in fact, exist.
FeedRoom

The visit comes two days after the Broward School Board said a substitute teacher told the class that the bearded gift-giver is fictional.

On his visit, Kris Kringle might want to thank kindergartener Hayley Shea (pictured right), who informed her mother, Melissa, that on Wednesday the teacher told the class that the toys under their Christmas trees were bought by their moms and dads.

When she was questioned by her 5-year-old daughter, Melissa Shea called the school, and with another mom, demanded the teacher be reprimanded and banned from the class.

The school decided that punishment was too harsh, but the substitute teacher was told to apologize for what the Broward School Board said on Thursday was a case of "poor judgment."

School Superintendent Frank Till arranged for the sleigh-farer to call on the class on Friday, in hopes the visit will reinstate the children's belief, and get their parents (and the school) off the hook.

As for Santa himself, he will take time off from his side gig at the Broward Mall to meet with the kids. Having retired from another moonlighting job as a South Florida principal, he is especially sensitive to the issue of Christmas in the classroom.

Santa would not comment on whether the teacher would receive a lump of coal in her stocking on Christmas Day.


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The part I highlighted I like the best. To get there parents off the hook. Why not fess up now instead of getting the children to believe again and then in a few years having to break there heart. The child will know then that they were lied to not once but twice.

Kids usually have their suspicions about Santa's existence once they reach a certain age. Why ruin the fantasy for KINDERGARTNERS?

If this teacher wanted to speak the truth to kids about Santa, she should have chosen a higher grade level to teach. I agree that the demand for her punishment was too harsh and from what I understand, she only received a verbal reprimand, which IMO was sufficient punishment. I'm sure she won't be saying these things again to 5 and 6 year olds.

I think it's great that the school got a Santa to come in for the kids to repair the damage.

To address your comment about breaking their hearts twice Optics, I think it was far more distressful to these little kids, (We're not talking 3rd & 4th graders here, we're talking about Kindergarten) to have their teacher break their hearts with this news rather than having them learn on their own when they're older and already begin to harvest skepticism about his existence.

Again, if you don't want to teach your kids about Santa, just like religion, it's up to you personally as a parent.

This story works both ways you know? You guys are griping because the teacher told the kids Santa didn't exist. Here now you have a bunch of grown adults (including those IN CHARGE of the school) going to stoop so low as to try to "prove" to those kids that Santa does exist.

Now, if I was a parent who had been teaching my child that Santa was a myth, I would be furious that the educators were setting up my child to believe a lie.

I don't believe the teacher did wrong because she told the truth. All you parents know she didn't lie, as you know there is no Santa.

However; the adults in that school are deliberately setting up a known lie. This is not having to do with religion either. This is having to do with setting children up to be deceived.

So, what do you say about all the children's parents who have taught their kids there is no Santa?

If the school system is that pathetic that they are going to teach our children lies, then at least have the courtesy to call ALL the parents and ask permission for their children to participate in this lie.

I love how you portray believing in Santa as some kind of evil thing. It's somewhat humorous. My parents told me that there was a Santa Claus, at some point i found out that there wasn't, and i appreciate their desire for me to have a special and memorable childhood. I have extremely fond memories about christmas eve, leaving out cookies and trying to fall asleep so Santa would come. I don't feel betrayed in any way, or that lying is something acceptable, i am merely thankful that they took the effort to add further enchantment to my childhood.
Maybe some would disagree with me and say a lot of kids would be harmed by such a thing, but the bottom line is that does'nt give them the right to meddle with what those children believe.

Kooka you proved my point, teachers and schools shouldn't deal with the subject at all. If they want to have Santas come because it's fun for the kids, then fine, but they shouldn't come to prove or disprove his existence one way or another. Like i said earlier, let the teachers teach reading, writing, and arithmatic, and let the parents handle the rest. Just because something is "the truth," doesn't mean it should be said out loud. I don't want teachers telling my kids they are dumber then the rest of the class just because they read slower. It's probably true, but it shouldn't be said.

Look....I have a five year old who questions the reality of Santa....but I feel its MY place to tell him, not some teacher. She should be more inclined to be teaching about other things and leave Santa to the parents.

Of course there is always at least one little kid who will ruin it and tell him, and thats fine...thats kids for ya.

He is getting to the point where he isnt sure if he believes, but its MY choice to tell him when I feel the time is right.....

and I dont think its a lie...its all in fun, and we all get over it...its not like any of us have been mentally scarred from it.
But the kids should hear the eventual truth from their parents....lets face it....they will find out he isnt real, and then when they have kids, they will tell them there is a Santa also....its a tradition.....why ruin it for people..

Boo hiss to that teacher!

Kooka you hit the bulls eye with that one. There is a huge double-standard with regard to Christianity in this country. As a nation we claim to value tolerance and pluralism, but it seems tolerance nor pluralism applies to christians. I just read an article about artwork depicting Jesus being removed from public view, yes that's right, an artist who expresses himself through his artwork is being denied this right because he painted Jesus instead of something else. Absurd and frightening.
As for the ACLU, they won't touch this one because it's Santa and not Jesus. Santa is the secular figurehead of Christmas, and the ACLU exclusively pushes secularism.
I think it's pretty obvious there is a double-standard, which is why if Jesus cannot be discussed in a classroom, Santa shouldn't be either. Once again, reading, writing, math and then send my kid home.

I am a teacher and year after year I am asked the age old question by the children if Santa is real. My reply is always the same... "What do YOU think?" -or "What do YOU believe?"
I then tell them that I believe in Santa, because as mentioned previously in this thread, Santa is about giving.
Trust me, you DO NOT want any parents upset with you for destroying a family belief, custom, or tradition.

I also always have one or two come up to me and tell me that they knwo Santa is really their parents. I just smile and wink at them but do not reply further.

The children I teach have it pretty rough... I'd like for them to hang on to at least one good fantasy!!

Try to forget the teacher for this post. Why do you feel that it is nessary to lie to kids to have fun. Yes, IT IS A LIE!!! I am firmly against lying. I try not to do it as much as I can. I believe that our soceity allows people too much slack w/ values. I think that we owe it to ourselves to be completely honest. Why not? What would be the harm in telling the truth? It might break a kids heart but so does that bully on the playground that calls them a dumb-ass. It is up to the parents to teach their children their own morals and values but I also think that it is up to society. "It takes a village to raise a child." If a kid finds out that all of the major influential figures in their life had lied to them, then it makes sense that they would think that it is ok to lie if its for fun...right? I don't like finding out that people lied to me to save me the pain. I would rather have them come out and say what happened then lie to me.

Back to the teacher. So what if she told the kids the truth? I think that if the parents wanted to have complete control over their kids thoughts then they should home-school them and shun them from society. I think that the school made a very big mistake in trying to prove that santa does exist. They should just take the *****ing by the parents and say that they had no control over the teacher....make a public appoligy or something.
It angers me that you people find it ok to mislead children. Their minds are supple and open to suggestion. Tell them in the early years that it is not alright to lie to people and set a good example for them to follow. Telling them that Santa exists is not doing that.

Santa does not exist and heres the proof:

Point #1 - No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified, and while most of these are insects and germs, this does not completely rule out flying reindeer which only Santa has ever seen.

Point #2 - There are 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't (appear) to handle the Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, and Buddhist children, that reduces the workload to 15% of the original total. - 378 million according to the Population Reference Bureau. At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that's 91.8 million homes. One presumes there is at least one good child in each.

Point #3 - Santa has 31 hours of Christmas to work with, thanks to the different time zones and the rotation of the earth, assuming that he travels east to west (which seems logical). This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This is to say that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been left, get back up the chimney, get back into the sleigh and move on to the next house. Assuming that each of these 91.8 million stops are evenly distributed around the earth (which, of course, we know to be false but for the purposes of our calculations we will accept), we are now talking about .78 miles per household, a total trip of 75 1/2 million miles, not counting stops to do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, plus feeding and etc. This means that Santa's sleigh is moving at 650 miles per second, 3,000 times the speed of sound. For purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle on earth, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second - a conventional reindeer can run, tops, 15 miles per hour.

Point #4 - The payload on the sleigh adds another interesting element. Assuming that each child gets nothing more than a medium-sized lego set (2 pounds), the sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventional reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (see point #1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, we cannot do the job with eight, or even nine reindeer. We need 214,200 reindeer. This increases the payload - not even counting the weight of the sleigh - to 353,430 tons. Again, for purposes of comparison, this is 4 times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth.

Point #5 - 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance. This will heat the reindeer up in the same fashion as spacecrafts re-entering the earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. PER SECOND. EACH. In short, they will burst into flame almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 THOUSANDTHS of a second. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to centrifugal forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of the sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

IN CONCLUSION - If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, HE'S DEAD NOW !

I believe that it is wrong to perpetuate the cycle of lies and rubbish told to children, namely the Easter Bunny, Santa Clause, and the tooth Fairy. Children should be given a bit more credit that this. What kind of society lies to their children? Just because it is traditional doesn't mean that it is right. It is sick, when you really think about it, that we tell our children Santa is real. We make them believe in something that is completely fabricated.

Christmas is fun without Santa. That way, children know that the presents come from their parents - people who really love them, and that they can't rely on some strange old man to illegally enter their houses and give them Christmas presents! What kind of values does this teach children in relation to the true value of gifts???

WHAT!!!? Santa not real?? now my life is devoid of meaning.
just kidding. actually, i think it is up to the parents. i did the same thing sierradaddy did. i always told people that santa wasn't real, because my parents never told me about him. as for santa being evil, whats up with that??

yes itz about time dat children be told the truth and the whole truth about sant clawz itz about time dat children be told the truth and the whole truth about christmas