Israeli army bulldozes over American citizen |
| Posted by: Search4Truth | | International activists say Israel intentionally killed U.S. woman
IBRAHIM BARZAK
Associated Press
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - A Palestinian-backed group of international activists on Monday disputed a claim by the Israeli military that a U.S. protester standing in the path of an Israeli bulldozer was crushed accidentally.
The International Solidarity Movement said Rachel Corrie of Olympia, Wash., was in the line of vision of the bulldozer driver Sunday as she stood in his path to try to prevent the demolition of a Palestinian home in the Rafah refugee camp.
"When the bulldozer refused to stop or turn aside she climbed up onto the mound of dirt and rubble being gathered in front of it ... to look directly at the driver who kept on advancing," the group said in a statement.
The Israeli military said Sunday that Corrie's death was an accident. It said small windows in the bulldozer's cab restricted the driver's vision. Several requests by The Associated Press to talk to an army commander in the area went unanswered.
Corrie, 23, a student at The Evergreen State College near Olympia, had been active in organizing events in Olympia's peace movement. Through a local group called Olympians for Peace in the Middle East, she joined the International Solidarity Movement, a Palestinian-led group that uses nonviolent methods to challenge Israeli occupation.
Adam Shapiro with the International Solidarity Movement, said Corrie's body would be flown to Olympia, her home town. Her parents, Craig and Cindy Corrie, moved to Charlotte, N.C., two years ago from Olympia.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat said Monday he contacted Corrie's family and expressed his condolences. "Our people embrace her and offer her our blessings," he said.
Amnesty International on Monday condemned Corrie's killing and called on the United States to suspend delivery of military equipment, including bulldozers, to Israel. In a statement, the human rights group called for an "independent investigation of her death."
Corrie's body was taken by ambulance Monday evening from a Palestinian hospital morgue to Israel, an Israeli army spokeswoman said. Joseph Smith, a member of the International Solidarity Movement, said the body would be flown home overnight from Tel Aviv.
At U.N. headquarters in Gaza City, about 200 Palestinians and foreigners attended a memorial service for Corrie on Monday. Four girls placed a picture of Corrie and flowers on an empty coffin, and mourners observed a moment of silence.
In Rafah, a 43-year-old Palestinian civilian killed by army fire Sunday, just after Corrie was crushed, was buried Monday. Mourners also carried an empty casket wrapped in U.S. and Palestinian flags, in memory of the peace activist.
Smith, who witnessed Sunday's incident, said it began when Corrie sat down in front of the bulldozer. He said the driver scooped her up with a pile of earth, dumped her on the ground and ran over her twice. Smith said Corrie was dressed in a bright orange jacket with reflective stripes.
The group said in its statement: "The bulldozer continued to advance so that she was pulled under the pile of dirt and rubble. After she had disappeared from view the driver kept advancing until the bulldozer was completely on top of her."
Protesters have stopped bulldozers in the past by sitting down in front of them, Smith said. Corrie did this Sunday, but this time the driver did not stop, Smith said.
Corrie's friends gathered around her bloodied body before she was taken to Rafah Hospital, the main medical center near the Gaza-Egypt border.
Pictures of Corrie, her head covered in a traditional Muslim headscarf, were published on the front pages of Israeli newspapers Monday.
Corrie wore a headscarf when working among the Palestinians, especially in Rafah where people tend to be more observant, Smith said.
A photo of Corrie taken in February show her in the center of a large demonstration, burning a U.S. flag made of paper.
The International Solidarity Movement has actively protested Israel's operations during the 29 months of violence. Last March, members of the group holed up in Bethlehem's Church of the Nativity during a military siege and sneaked into Arafat's compound when the army blockaded his Ramallah headquarters. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Sean Kelly | | Yeah uih.. we read this on Monday, yoh. Survival of the fittest prevails yet again. Oh well.. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Dreamzwalker | | Where have you been?
This is old news and if your stupid enough to stand in front of that - common sense would tell you "i may die"
but then, most protesters do not have common sense. Like Green Peace. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: NothingSacred | | It's the hypocrisy that cracks me up! If Saddam, or North Korea or Col. Khadaffi or Idi Amin had run her over you'd be all gung ho to kill them. but since Jews killed her, you just seem to feel that "the dumb ***** got in the way." | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Sean Kelly | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by NothingSacred
It's the hypocrisy that cracks me up! If Saddam, or North Korea or Col. Khadaffi or Idi Amin had run her over you'd be all gung ho to kill them. but since Jews killed her, you just seem to feel that "the dumb ***** got in the way." |
You think you know us pretty well, huh? My opinion is that if protesters, like yourself, are stupid enough to do that, they get what's coing to `em.
We've had protesters like mad out here in Calif.. one of them just fell off the golden Gate Bridge to their death last week. Again: survival of the fittest.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: NothingSacred | | So if Saddam gasses some protesters, so what? It doesn't bother me at all? So Saddam gassed his own people, so what? $hit happens right? Why punish Saddam or even criticise him, if it's ok for Israel, it should be ok for everybody. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Search4Truth | | sadddam breaks 17 resolutions, we go to war with him
Israel breaks 60, we reward them with military funding
makes perfect sense to me
PURE BULL**** YOU KNOW AND I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS WRONG | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Sean Kelly | | You're totally confusing two separate situations with your mumbo-jumbo. There's a difference between a chick ran over by a vehicle because she was lying down in front of it OUT OF SIGHT of the operator and being specifically attacked by an assailant. She put herself in harm's way, pulled a stupid maneuver and paid the price. If Saddam were to "gas" protestors, that would be an assault now, wouldn't it? | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: DrPoke | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Sean Kelly
You're totally confusing two separate situations with your mumbo-jumbo. There's a difference between a chick ran over by a vehicle because she was lying down infront of it OUT OF SIGHT of the operator and being specifically attacked by an assailant. She put herself in harm's way, pulled a stupid maneuver and paid the price. If Saddam were to "gas" protestors that would be an assault now, wouldn't it.
Originally posted by Search4Truth
"When the bulldozer refused to stop or turn aside she climbed up onto the mound of dirt and rubble being gathered in front of it ... to look directly at the driver who kept on advancing," the group said in a statement.
|
http://electronicintifada.net/artman/uploads/rach.jpg
http://electronicintifada.net/artman/uploads/rach1.jpg
http://electronicintifada.net/artman/uploads/rach3.jpg
I'm sure this driver was not blind, and knew what he was doing. Anyone who thinks it's ok to kill an unarmed civilian has a sick and warped mind. Similar protests occur all over the world. Remember Tianamen square, even the chinese wouldn't kill a protester for democracy like that... and it's probably harder to see out of a tank.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by NothingSacred
So if Saddam gasses some protesters, so what? It doesn't bother me at all? So Saddam gassed his own people, so what? $hit happens right? Why punish Saddam or even criticise him, if it's ok for Israel, it should be ok for everybody. |
The difference is that the bimbo willingly put herself in harms way. The People that Saddam kills don't have a choice you idiot.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by DrPoke
I'm sure this driver was not blind, and knew what he was doing. Anyone who thinks it's ok to kill an unarmed civilian has a sick and warped mind. Similar protests occur all over the world. Remember Tianamen square, even the chinese wouldn't kill a protester for democracy like that... and it's probably harder to see out of a tank. |
No the chinese prefer a gunshot to the head. Do you know what kind of maintenance would have to be done on that tank? The cleanup would not be fun.
Look, are we supposed to feel sorry for someone who stood in front of a bulldozer? I don't care what a persons cause is, if you put yourself in harms way then you have to eccept the consequences but instead her buddies go crying to the media like it was the drivers fault. Brain dead.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: NothingSacred | | The people Saddam killed often times had the same choice as those the Israelis kill...DON'T OPPOSE THE RULING POWER, whether it be Saddam or Sharon, Jews or Bathists...not much difference. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by NothingSacred
The people Saddam killed often times had the same choice as those the Israelis kill...DON'T OPPOSE THE RULING POWER, whether it be Saddam or Sharon, Jews or Bathists...not much difference. |
whatever. 
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: rowdyrjp | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
Hi Rowdy!
I know youre upset with this. But realistically, this woman put herself in harms way. One cannot put themselves in front of a tank and expect to be seen. its a tank. Would you ever walk in front of a vehicle that big to block it? Id get the hell out of the way.
Dont get me wrong...it very sad, but this kind of protesting doesnt work, and I think from what has happened its obvious.
There must be better ways to protest. Just like Sean said, some guy protesting and fell off the Golden Gate Bridge. (I hadnt heard that one, but that goes to show that some actions are just ridiculous).
This is not the way to capture peace. Im sorry, but it isnt. I feel for her and her family, and Im not heartless, I just think there are better ways to promote peace rather than put your life on the line for it....in the manner that she did. Even if he would have seen her and moved around her, how would that be helping the peace movement anyways? I dont get it. |
Hi mystic.... do me a favour OK? Check out the pictures.
She is standing on a hill .... in plain sight .... in front of a bulldozer... not a tank... she is on hill so that driver CAN see her..
THIS THUG BRUTALLY MURDERS HER!!!!!
I .... can think of nothing further to add.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by rowdyrjp
Hi mystic.... do me a favour OK? Check out the pictures.
She is standing on a hill .... in plain sight .... in front of a bulldozer... not a tank... she is on hill so that driver CAN see her..
THIS THUG BRUTALLY MURDERS HER!!!!!
I .... can think of nothing further to add. |
My mistake, I meant bulldozer.
But the fact is that she chose to sit in front of it. Can a bulldozer be stopped that easily? How ridiculous is it to sit in front of a machine that big?
Like I said, Im sorry and its sad. But that still doesnt explain to me how her doing that was helping peace. And by dong so she paid the ultimate price. You cannot just sit in front of a machine that big. And I wonder why no one else there chose to do the same. maybe because they knew better?
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | | It's funny how people want to remove any responsibility from a protester and put it all on a heavy machinery operator. None of us was there to see what the bulldozer operator saw. I seriously doubt that he just ran her over. I get tired of radical protesters who put themselves in harms way and then whine when the police use rubber bullets on them or they get hurt. It is insane to feel sorry for them. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by flapbreaker
I get tired of radical protesters who put themselves in harms way and then whine when the police use rubber bullets on them or they get hurt. |
I totally agree!
And this happens ALL the time. Im sorry but you cannot sit in front of a piece of heavy machinery and not take the chance of being run over.
And what in the hell were the people doing that were taking the pictures? Did they try and talk her out of doing it? Why didnt they stand in front of it either?
These people spout off that they promote peace, but for the most part, arent they just adding to the problem because of the choices they make? And like you said flap, why is it always someone elses problem, and never theirs? No one forced her to do that. She chose it and paid the ultimate price for stupidity. I dont like saying that, but how else is there to explain it?
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by flapbreaker
Finally a sane response. Thanks mystic. |
Anytime...it had to be said!!! (along with yours of course, which I totally agreed with!!!) 
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | | I understand the concept nowar...what I dont think is that it solves anything. If anything, a person puts themselves in danger while trying to promote peace. That doesnt make any sense. But let me ask you...has that way of behavior EVER solved the peace issue? No. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: AUDavo | | Where did these pictures come from? And where is the picture of the house that was about to be razed to the ground and the picture of the girl actually getting run over? I guess what Im saying is that Im not sold on your proof. To me it looks like 3 people with a bulldozer out in a field in Oregon somewhere.
But anyway she stood in front of the bulldozer - its not like it was zooming at her at 60 mph...I think she couldve dodged it. And what about those great friends of hers? Were they just there for the show? No one smart enough or cared enough to try to save her? | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: nowar | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
I understand the concept nowar...what I dont think is that it solves anything. If anything, a person puts themselves in danger while trying to promote peace. That doesnt make any sense. But let me ask you...has that way of behavior EVER solved the peace issue? No. |
wrong, India won its independance in a peaceful manner: those men and women have been hit by the troops, shot by the troops, moved away from road by trucks, many died but they never took arms neither bombs .... and they won their independance ...... so yes, this behaviour can solve the peace issue, but not if only one person does it ..... that's the problem .....
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: rowdyrjp | | Wow.... you guys are cold.
Yes she chose to STAND { not sit... sit infers she was lower to ground and easily missed by the operator/murderer } in front of the bulldozer.
If this protest { misguided or not } took place in a civilized country ... the driver would not have DARED to go near her... if he did and killed her... our laws { our being anyone of the developed first world nations } would prosecute him for ... depraved indifference AT LEAST!!!
These individuals... were motivated to stand up and peaceful say this will not happen! The fact that they were callously crushed does not make them failures... it does not make them stupid... it does not make them bimbos.
I really do not want to here such ugly words towards, arguably, saintly people.
The man in Tiennamen Square was an image that resounded for my generation { teen in 80's}. He was an image of the brutality of certain regimes. He bacame a symbol for human rights.
I know many of you could not make that stand.... that is why you insult it.
I don't think I could either.... the type of convictions required for such an act... well I would rather have armed myself and foolishly fired on the tank.... or in this new case the bulldozer.
But these individuals stood for PEACEFUL PROTEST. To have fought against the monsters was not their way....
I could not do it... but I would not presume to belittle them.
Maybe we live in a world where, if it happened now, Ghandi would have been kicked aside, clubbed and shot.
But once upon a time we recognized his NOBILITY and SACRIFICE. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by rowdyrjp
Wow.... you guys are cold.
Yes she chose to STAND { not sit... sit infers she was lower to ground and easily missed by the operator/murderer } in front of the bulldozer.
If this protest { misguided or not } took place in a civilized country ... the driver would not have DARED to go near her... if he did and killed her... our laws { our being anyone of the developed first world nations } would prosecute him for ... depraved indifference AT LEAST!!!
These individuals... were motivated to stand up and peaceful say this will not happen! The fact that they were callously crushed does not make them failures... it does not make them stupid... it does not make them bimbos.
I really do not want to here such ugly words towards, arguably, saintly people.
The man in Tiennamen Square was an image that resounded for my generation { teen in 80's}. He was an image of the brutality of certain regimes. He bacame a symbol for human rights.
I know many of you could not make that stand.... that is why you insult it.
I don't think I could either.... the type of convictions required for such an act... well I would rather have armed myself and foolishly fired on the tank.... or in this new case the bulldozer.
But these individuals stood for PEACEFUL PROTEST. To have fought against the monsters was not their way....
I could not do it... but I would not presume to belittle them.
Maybe we live in a world where, if it happened now, Ghandi would have been kicked aside, clubbed and shot.
But once upon a time we recognized his NOBILITY and SACRIFICE. |
Rowdy...
the article stated that she climbed onto the mound of dirt it was collecting..onto the scoop You are replacing that she "sat" to "she was sat down"? She placed herself there.
How does standing for a peaceful protest in this manner work?
Im sorry I realize in India people were killed for peace , and it worked for them because they had how many people die??? How can you state that they got peace by dying and thats okay, but this isnt?
I am not willing to die like that. If I want to preach peace, I could find a better forum than standing in front of a bulldozer.
And again, what were her friends doing while they were snapping pictures? Did anyone try to help at all? Why did they not stand in front of it also? Why did not one person run to her aid???
Oh...I forgot....they were too busy snapping the camera. C'mon!
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: Anti-Jihad | | While I agree with you that peaceful protesting is a heroic act, I have to disagree that such protesting should be fully legal because that way, for example, a country may nuke a few other countries and when it gets attacked, its civilians will stand in the way and make peace protests. Also terrorist organizations may hire civilians to work for them as body protectors and whenever policemen and soldiers go to arrest/kill them, they will call for these peace protesters to stop the attackers.
I do understand that a peaceful protest is a humane thing and a way of free speech, but if it's government's decision, if one person or few think differently, it doesn't mean they have to do something against it and that they should have the right to protest and the full power to stop government's actions. If that was this way, then the government wouldn't be able to do anything because to each of its action someone will always object. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: 1young11 | | Here is a link for more pictures of the incident:
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article1248.shtml
I don't see how the action of 1 irresponsible heavy equipment operator reflects on all of Israel, the operator of the machine is accountable, not Israel. If Israel does nothing about it, than that is another story.
Realistically though, Rachel is also responsible for putting herself in that situation, she probably figured that he was going to move, or stop, but by the time that she realized he wasn't, it was too late. Tragic | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | | Look. I have never said that she doesn't have the right to die for her cause. What I have a problem with is the fact that SHE could have prevented her own death so people need to stop blaming the driver.
I do believe that the china incident is quite a bit different. That gentleman lived in a communistic country that wouldn't think twice about putting a bullet to his head. I am sure he was willing to die that day, fortunately for him the tanks stopped but I believe that he fully thought he was going to die that day. Do we even know what became of him? For all we know he was shot dead by his government.
Her friends said that the driver was aware that she was there. I say that she was aware of the bulldozer. It's great that she had such a burning desire to get run over in the name of peace but it all seems in vane to me.
I also believe that there is almost no such thing as "peaceful" protesting. We have had plenty of protesting over the years in the States and it always involves vandalism and injuries. After the protesters have walked all over the rights of other citizens they then cry that the police had to intervene. Oh well. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: 1young11 | | Yes I agree that she put herself in that position, but think of it like this. If it came to the driver's attention that there was a capped off gas line sticking out of the ground, and it was in his way, would the driver move or run over it? My guess is that he would move so as not to run over and rupture a gas line. Which is more important? a gas line or a human? | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by 1young11
Yes I agree that she put herself in that position, but think of it like this. If it came to the driver's attention that there was a capped off gas line sticking out of the ground, and it was in his way, would the driver move or run over it? My guess is that he would move so as not to run over and rupture a gas line. Which is more important? a gas line or a human? |
A gas line cannot walk in front of a bulldozer and place itself there. But I understand what point you are trying to make though.
I realize it is a person, and I have stated how sad it is. But again, how did that promote peace? Why didnt the others start running over and help get her out of there? She didnt have to climb on the the mound of debris that the shovel was scooping up. Why were those people just snapping pictures and not helping? My first reaction would have been to throw the camera down and run to help, and I would be screaming for him to stop so I could get her out of the way...OR I would have been yelling at her to move. Or maybe...just maybe...I would not have been there in the first place.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: rowdyrjp | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
A gas line cannot walk in front of a bulldozer and place itself there. But I understand what point you are trying to make though.
I realize it is a person, and I have stated how sad it is. But again, how did that promote peace? Why didnt the others start running over and help get her out of there? She didnt have to climb on the the mound of debris that the shovel was scooping up. Why were those people just snapping pictures and not helping? My first reaction would have been to throw the camera down and run to help, and I would be screaming for him to stop so I could get her out of the way...OR I would have been yelling at her to move. Or maybe...just maybe...I would not have been there in the first place. |
From my understanding, of the events, the chronolgy is a little off in your analyses.
I keep reading references such as:
A gas line cannot walk in front of a bulldozer and place itself there .
From what I can tell she was there BEFORE the bulldozer....
She was not going to leave because the bulldozer was coming.
and:
She didnt have to climb on the the mound of debris that the shovel was scooping up .
My understanding is that she did NOT climb up on the mound AS the bulldozer was scooping it up. From what I have heard and read.... she staked out her position on top of the mound WELL before the bulldozer came to it. She remained there to deny it access.... I don't see how she could have been missed. It does not seem likely the driver could have missed her.
As for what her companions were doing? Most likely screaming I would guess.... they may not have intervened out of fear of being crushed themselves.
It requires a degree of faith { that I do not have } in the basic decency of people to stand there...sure ... ABSOLUTELY SURE that the driver will back down... because ... he wouldn't kill you just because you are intervening in an attempt to STOP the madness between these tribes? He couldn't do that to someone who isn't his enemy... could he? All these thoughts probably went through the poor woman's head right up until she was crushed......
And see this is why I have given up on reason and diplomacy in this conflict.
It has been going on so long.... It has such deep rooted hatreds and grudges... there are so many legitimate accusations of inhumanity by BOTH sides regarding the other.... That neither tribe even sees the other as human anymore.... this makes it easier to enact the most brutal reprisals for the others actions... which in turn inspires that one to even greater depths of violence to answer back.... They do not have the tools to end this.
The rest of us can make a choice.......
We can choose to ignore it and let them slaughter indefintely...
We can choose to side with one or the other and finally destroy one side....
We can continue to TALK of peace and cease fires as nothing more than exercise in soothing or consciences { well we SAID they should stop..... }....
Or we can MAKE the fighting stop. The might of the leading nations on this planet... has been used for lots of purposes before.... defence... attack.... etc.
Why not use it to provide these bitter, helpless peoples some respite from a battle that could never be ended otherwise.
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | | OK. One last comment about the bulldozer. Rowdy, I understand you point about the woman not believing that someone would blatantly run her over until it was too late. I can also see another side of it and I could equally see the bulldozer operator thinking that "there is no way this girl is going to stand there, she will move at the last minute". The scoop on the front of that think is huge so once he got up close to her he would not have been able to see if she moved or not but probably assumed no one would be that stupid to just stand there so he proceeded. I would like to hear accounts of what the driver did once he realized what had happened. Did he go to her assistance? Or did he get out and just watch?
This whole conflict is just stupid. Every time the US (or anyone else but it always seems to be our responsibility) gets things moving it seems like the violence escalates. I hate to say this but sometimes it takes a catastrophe (aka nuke, genocide, or just a massive invasion by outside forces) to break a never ending cycle that keeps happening. I know that's a strong suggestion but I am with you rowdy, I'm just sick of both parties. Enough is enough. Maybe the world should just take that area for itself and turn it into a world monument for religion. A place to visit and reflect. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | | I dont think he did it on purpose...
I think its just another way of blaming someone for someone else's stupid actions.
Bottom line: If you place yourself in a dangerous position...be prepared for the consequence.
If he did do it on purpose.....well....My goodness...
We are talking about a war between Palestine and Israel. We have already seen that innocent people are dying. You cannot go into another country and think that things will work like you think they should work. If they think you are an enemy...they will treat you like one. (This goes for either side).
Again....place yourself in a bad spot, and bad things are gonna happen!!! | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: flapbreaker | | Mystic, I agree with you.
Nobody seems to give a rip about the Innocent people riding on buses when a murder bomber blows one up. Is their death not important because they were not "making a statement"? Yet someone who stood in the way of a moving bulldozer is glorified? I don't get it. | | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: mystic | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by flapbreaker
Mystic, I agree with you.
Nobody seems to give a rip about the Innocent people riding on buses when a murder bomber blows one up. Is their death not important because they were not "making a statement"? Yet someone who stood in the way of a moving bulldozer is glorified? I don't get it. |
I dont get it either!
I know people keep saying that he probably saw her...but Im sorry, I think its just ridiculous that this has become so personal to some, when like you said, other people that have died, are just mentioned so casually in passing....people who did not place themselves in a dangerous position.
It drives me crazy. I would never go to a foreign country that has a war going on and expect them to treat me like I would expect to be treated here. The thought of it is ridiculous. She had no business promoting peace like this. It doesnt get anywhere. Hell...these people are fighting over land..does anyone possible think they they give a crap about one more life lost, when so many have already died over it??
I dont care what anyone says...the person taking pictures obviously did not give one ounce of crap about her, if he/she did...then why is everything on film?
This makes NO sense to me!
I cant believe that some people feel that she should not take any responsibility for her own actions. Its maddening!
| | Reply To this Message
|
| Posted by: rowdyrjp | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by mystic
I dont get it either!
I know people keep saying that he probably saw her...but Im sorry, I think its just ridiculous that this has become so personal to some, when like you said, other people that have died, are just mentioned so casually in passing....people who did not place themselves in a dangerous position.
It drives me crazy. I would never go to a foreign country that has a war going on and expect them to treat me like I would expect to be treated here. The thought of it is ridiculous. She had no business promoting peace like this. It doesnt get anywhere. Hell...these people are fighting over land..does anyone possible think they they give a crap about one more life lost, when so many have already died over it??
I dont care what anyone says...the person taking pictures obviously did not give one ounce of crap about her, if he/she did...then why is everything on film?
This makes NO sense to me!
I cant believe that some people feel that she should not take any responsibility for her own actions. Its maddening! |
I am sorry ... I think you guys are misunderstanding me.
I am in no way advocating the atrocities of either the Palestinians or the Israelies.... they are both completely helpless in their crippling hatred for each other.
I am not advocating we go stand in front of them { like this woman did} unarmed and peacefully demanding the viloence stop.
I think her sacrifice shows clearly that the world no longer respects "Gandhi" type stances anymore.
This saddens me... if for no other reason.... because I wish we lived in a world where non-violence can impact the hearts and minds of combatants. Once perhaps we did. But now the world has changed..... if not for the better.
See I do disagree with her methods.... not as a moral question { I think peaceful protestors can be symbols for us.... even if we don't realize it until years later!!!} .... but as a practical means of change. With the present day level of hatred and disregard for human life.... noble intentions and high ideals can easily be squashed by hardened thugs.
I think such people { the man in Tiennamen Square.... this lady}
are better than most of us... the represent the best of what the human heart can feel towards its fellow man. But some problems ... some problems are so ugly... they require ugly solutions... invading them... occupying them... this would be ugly... this could be hard. But it stands a chance to succeed... because Israel and Palestine have one major thing in common... they may not understand peace but they understand FORCE!
We could show them a force they have never seen... a force they could not hope to fight..... a force that could { in their warped view} gain their respect.
Respect is the issue I think.
The driver of the bulldozer had no respect for her... because peaceful=weak to them and weak is pathetic and who is this pathetic person to tell ME I can not do whatever I want to my enemies.
The bystanders.... the Palestinians who watched her get crushed for them, had no respect for her.... because peaceful=weak to them and weak is pathetic and why should I die for this... enough of us already have.. let this foreign weakling die for ME instead.
I think it is quite possible they were more than glad to have someone else from some other country die for their cause... it meant more of them would be available for suicide bombings!!!
I think it is quite possible the driver was more than glad to send a message..... to the rest of the world do not think you can TELL us how to handle our problems... WE will deal with them how WE
see fit and pity those who get in our way!
Well to the Palestinians... the WORLD is not going to walk quietly towards futile deaths to satisfy your morbid hatred of all things Israelie!!!!
Well to the Israelies.... the WORLD is not going to TELL you anything, very soon {hopefully} we will ACT! And our actions will communicate with you clearer than any of our words have ever done!!
| | Reply To this Message
|
Israel & Palestine Forum: Israeli army bulldozes over American citizen
|