trying to find a reason... |
| Posted by: daggerknight | | you know,
Im against this war but Id like to have some reason to support it since my fiance is joining the army soon. Reasons other than Saddam is a crazy dictator because I dont really think thats any of our buisness. George Bush is a war mongerer with the IQ of a thumbtack but you dont see people coming overseas to "liberate" america from him. Anyway, Id just like to see some honest statistics, like current amount of casualties, projected amount of casualties, and Id like to really, I mean REALLY know how the iraqi's feel about this, because Im not sure I trust the media showing them dancing and shaking the american soilder's hands, I know theres more to it than that. Maybe like some interviews with iraqi civilians or something. Also, i really feel that americans wouldnt be so eager to go to war if any of us REALLY had ANY clue as to what war was actually like. We havent fought a war in our own country since the civil war. I mean, what if this was being fought on our turf? And all night you had to listen to bombs blowing up buildings and worrying about your family because "precision guided missles" arent 100% accurate. Im sure then we'd be much more careful about war. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Marc Flemming | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by daggerknight
George Bush is a war mongerer with the IQ of a thumbtack but you dont see people coming overseas to "liberate" america from him. |
Sorry, but suggesting that we need to be liberated is, oh, slightly far-fetched.
How many of your friends are you losing to government sponsored genocide?
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| Anyway, Id just like to see some honest statistics, like current amount of casualties, projected amount of casualties |
Ask the Americans - they're probably not going to tell you for awhile. Ask the Iraqis and surely you'll get an inflated number. Are you referring to military or civilian casualties? Militarily - the allies have lost roughly 14 soldiers - 12 of those were our fault. Iraqi soldiers? Likely nothing super surprising - the majority of them are surrendering. Civilians? Who knows - your best bet is to find an airline that will fly you over there to develop your own head count. This is war - there will be casualties. No one denies that. How are we to determine where to draw the line when this pre-emptive invasion is in the name of prevention - prevention of unknown casualties?
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| and Id like to really, I mean REALLY know how the iraqi's feel about this, because Im not sure I trust the media showing them dancing and shaking the american soilder's hands, I know theres more to it than that. Maybe like some interviews with iraqi civilians or something. |
Ask the Iraqi Youth Union - a group of young men and women living in America. They were up in the wee hours of the morning in some random bar glued to the television watching the beginning hours of the war. Through their thick Iraqi accents, they explain that they have family in Iraq and couldn't be more grateful that the US is their removing Saddam and his regieme.
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| Also, i really feel that americans wouldnt be so eager to go to war if any of us REALLY had ANY clue as to what war was actually like. |
I assume you mean: if we really had any clue what war was like while it was occurring around our own homes. Indeed, most of us Americans haven't a clue. However, it seems an unnecessary requirement for what is otherwise obvious. War is hell no matter where you're from or where the war is. Anyone with a conscience recognizes that. Anyone who has seen a few realistic war films can associate the resulting sick feeling in their stomach with the consequences of going to war. Movies not enough? Sure they are. I sat and watched "Saving Private Ryan" only to hear the sniveling of an older gentleman behind me in the theater. He turned out to be a veteran of World War II who expressed to me after the film that not since his time in France and Germany had he experienced something so representative of the reality of that time he spent in Normandy. With the technological evolutions in film - the realism of war has become near reality for many of the average Joes in the world today. I'm certain that we as a society understand the reprecussions of military action more NOW then did the folks in the 40's who saw their sons off to war.
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| I mean, what if this was being fought on our turf? And all night you had to listen to bombs blowing up buildings and worrying about your family because "precision guided missles" arent 100% accurate. Im sure then we'd be much more careful about war. |
What if? I think, as Americans, we'd also be a whole helluva lot more proactive in resolving any issues that arrise in terms of the direction our country had gone - that is unless our leader killed us for speaking out against him. In other words, if we were in a position to be bombed, quite possibly, there would also exist reasons why we should be willing to accept it and make sacrifices in light of the greater good - if not for ourselves, for our children who will otherwise mature in a society that is poor and violently oppressive. Doesn't sound much like a life worth living.
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| Posted by: gdog | | Good response Marc, you saved me the typing.
Just regarding Daggers "IQ of a thumbtack" comment:
Since this is your belief, im sure your academic record is similar to this:
George Bush Received a bachelors degree from Yale university, MBA from Harvard business school.
Done any time in the military?
George Bush flew F-102s for the Texas National Guard.
Liberate America?.....................Dont let the liberal media fool you.
Not trying to offend you, but you spout the same anti war dogma thats being used across the world, trouble is little to none of it is based on fact. You dont have to pass any tests to be a protester, and it shows. Educate yourself, (dont use tabloid media to do so)and I think you will be able to support this war. But you need to hurry, it not going to last long. | | Reply To this Message
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| Posted by: Sean Kelly | |
| quote: |
Originally posted by daggerknight
.. George Bush is a war mongerer with the IQ of a thumbtack.. |
Look here...
While I agree that GWB may not be the most eloquent speaker in the world..
While I admit that perhaps it is questionable whether GWB received an Ivy League education from Harvard University..
Our President is no fool. He is not an idiot. You don't become the most powerful man in the World by being a retard. Though he may not have been well-expressed or good under pressure in public appearances initially, he's getting better. He's learning how to respond effectively under pressure. Our Presdent is deserving of a HELL of a lot more respect than he is receiving here. Maybe he needs to spent all night working things over with his wife, his most trusted confidante, maybe he is a significantly more inward with his thoughts than most, but rest assured that this is no stupid man who responds to the stimuli of the world.
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| Posted by: zid | | All I can ask, if this man is such a "Warmonger", why is it, that (from initial reports of all newspapers around the world are reporting very similiar sightings) as a city is entered by the Alliance soldiers the Iraqi citizens are coming out to great them with open arms and relief?
Are these people truly happy to be liberated? If this is a war that was unwanted by the majority of the "world", I can only be glad to see from the "initial" look of what is being shown, the most important citizens voices of this war....is of welcome. So many of you peace minded individuals enjoy your own peace that you forget of the true individuals of concern here.
I could care less of the hidden agendas our politicians have in this war....EVERY politician has a hidden agenda, be it if they were for this war or against this war, they each had their dark reasons for not supporting or supporting it. All I can see so far, the Iraqi citizens are happy to be free. I just hope this consensus continues. | | Reply To this Message
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Post-9/11 Era Forum: trying to find a reason...
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